linux-kernel - Re: Xen is a feature

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.01.0906021053050.3351@localhost.localdomain>
Date:	Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
From:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
To:	George Dunlap <george.dunlap@...citrix.com>
cc:	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	"jeremy@...p.org" <jeremy@...p.org>,
	"mingo@...e.hu" <mingo@...e.hu>,
	Dan Magenheimer <dan.magenheimer@...cle.com>,
	"avi@...hat.com" <avi@...hat.com>,
	"xen-devel@...ts.xensource.com" <xen-devel@...ts.xensource.com>,
	"x86@...nel.org" <x86@...nel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Keir Fraser <Keir.Fraser@...citrix.com>,
	"gregkh@...e.de" <gregkh@...e.de>,
	"kurt.hackel@...cle.com" <kurt.hackel@...cle.com>,
	Ian Pratt <Ian.Pratt@...citrix.com>,
	"xen-users@...ts.xensource.com" <xen-users@...ts.xensource.com>,
	ksrinivasan <ksrinivasan@...ell.com>,
	"EAnderson@...ell.com" <EAnderson@...ell.com>,
	"wimcoekaerts@...mekes.net" <wimcoekaerts@...mekes.net>,
	Stephen Spector <stephen.spector@...rix.com>,
	"jens.axboe@...cle.com" <jens.axboe@...cle.com>,
	"npiggin@...e.de" <npiggin@...e.de>
Subject: Re: Xen is a feature

On Tue, 2 Jun 2009, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> I dunno. I just do know that I pointed out the statistics for how 
> mindlessly incestuous the Xen patches have historically been to Jeremy. He 
> admitted it. I've not seen _anybody_ say that things will improve. 

In case people want to look at this on their own, get a git tree, and run 
the examples I asked Jeremy to run:

        git log --pretty=oneline --full-diff --stat arch/x86/kvm/ |
                grep -v '/kvm' |
                less -S

and then go ahead and do the same except with "xen" instead of "kvm".

Now, once you've done that, ask yourself which one is going to be merged 
easily and without any pushback.

Btw, this is NOT meant to be a "xen vs kvm" thing. Before you react to the 
"kvm" part, replace "arch/x86/kvm" above with "drivers/scsi" or something.

The point? Xen really is horribly badly separated out. It gets way more 
incestuous with other systems than it should. It's entirely possible that 
this is very fundamental to both paravirtualization and to hypervisor 
behavior, but it doesn't matter - it just measn that I can well see that 
Xen is a f*cking pain to merge.

So please, Xen people, look at your track record, and look at the issues 
from the standpoint of somebody merging your code, rather than just from 
the standpoint of somebody who whines "I want my code to be merged".

IOW, if you have trouble getting your code merged, ask yourself what _you_ 
are doing wrong.

			Linus
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/