Date:	Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:20:42 +0300
From:	Pekka Enberg <penberg@...helsinki.fi>
To:	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@...llo.nl>
CC:	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>, acme <acme@...hat.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	"Frédéric Weisbecker" <fweisbec@...il.com>,
	Eduard-Gabriel Munteanu <eduard.munteanu@...ux360.ro>,
	roland <roland@...hat.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>,
	Masami Hiramatsu <mhiramat@...hat.com>,
	Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@...ymtl.ca>,
	fche <fche@...hat.com>, LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: malloc() tracing in perf?

Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 10:48 +0300, Pekka Enberg wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> It's me again :-).
>>
>> I have a little user-space application that is pretty memory hungry and 
>> I want to understand why. I started to google around for a memory 
>> profiler or a malloc() tracer but didn't seem to find anything really 
>> useful.
>>
>> But then it hit me, why can't I have kmemtrace + perf but for 
>> user-space? Something like the "Malloc Trace" shown here:
>>
>> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/developertools/conceptual/SharkUserGuide/OtherProfilingandTracingTechniques/OtherProfilingandTracingTechniques.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40005233-CH6-SW17
>>
>> Does this sound like something that could/should be part of "perf"? How 
>> would all this work anyway? Can we intercept malloc() and free() 
>> somehow? Where would the data be pushed? Am I just going perf-crazy and 
>> trying to turn it into a swiss army knife because it's so easy to use?-)
> 
> OK, you just trod into a wasp's nest :-)
> 
> 
> That sounds like uprobes, the equivalent of kprobes but for userspace.
> 
> I seem to have heard people are working on such a thing, but I can't
> seem to find a single LKML post with 'uprobe' in the subject in the past
> two years or something (except for MTUprobe) -- so I guess its not
> really going anywhere any fast.
> 
> Now doing probes on userspace is hard because you need to know more
> about the userspace bits than a kernel really ought to be interested in.
> 
> Then again, the only way to extract bits from userspace is to stop it --
> now one could do that using [pu]trace and have some monitoring app prod
> at it like any other debugger would, and I think this is the approach
> suggested by some (hch iirc).
> 
> Others seem to think we ought to stuff all this into the kernel, I can
> only imagine the pain that will cause, since you need to teach the
> kernel about these instrumentation sites' context, so I can only imagine
> it'd be through a kernel module interface much like system-tap does
> (they would be doing the in-kernel bit).
> 
> Then there are the tracer folks who also want to collect userspace
> traces. Some have proposed a sys_trace() call, others want to play silly
> games with mmap() and then there is the uprobe idea. Others (tglx and
> me) proposed letting userspace log itself and post-merge all the various
> trace buffers to get a complete picture.
> 
> 
> Anyway, like you say, it has uses (potentially very powerful ones),
> Sun/Apple do it with Dtrace, Linux wants it but I don't think we quite
> agreed on how to do it :-)
> 
> 
> And here I see LKML isn't on the CC list, perhaps we should?

Oh sure, lets do that, half of the people seem to be on the CC anyway 
now :-).

			Pekka
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