linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 0/3] cpu: idle state framework for offline CPUs.

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Date:	Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:53:22 +0200
From:	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@...llo.nl>
To:	balbir@...ux.vnet.ibm.com
Cc:	Dipankar Sarma <dipankar@...ibm.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>,
	Len Brown <lenb@...nel.org>,
	"Pallipadi, Venkatesh" <venkatesh.pallipadi@...el.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...k.pl>,
	"Li, Shaohua" <shaohua.li@...el.com>,
	Gautham R Shenoy <ego@...ibm.com>,
	Joel Schopp <jschopp@...tin.ibm.com>,
	"Brown, Len" <len.brown@...el.com>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crashing.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>,
	Vaidyanathan Srinivasan <svaidy@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	"Darrick J. Wong" <djwong@...ibm.com>,
	"linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org" <linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] cpu: idle state framework for offline CPUs.

On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 01:14 +0530, Balbir Singh wrote:
> * Dipankar Sarma <dipankar@...ibm.com> [2009-08-16 23:56:29]:
> 
> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 01:30:21PM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > It depends on the hypervisor implementation. On pseries (powerpc)
> > > > hypervisor, for example, they are different. By offlining a vcpu
> > > > (and in turn shutting a cpu), you will actually create a configuration
> > > > change in the VM that is visible to other systems management tools
> > > > which may not be what the system administrator wanted. Ideally,
> > > > we would like to distinguish between these two states.
> > > > 
> > > > Hope that suffices as an example.
> > > 
> > > So... you have something like "physically pulling out hotplug cpu" on
> > > powerpc.
> > 
> > If any system can do physical unplug, then it should do "offline"
> > with configuration changes reflected in the hypervisor and
> > other system configuration software.
> > 
> > > But maybe it is useful to take already offline cpus (from linux side),
> > > and make that visible to hypervisor, too.
> > > 
> > > So maybe something like "echo 1 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/unplug"
> > > would be more useful for hypervisor case?
> > 
> > On pseries, we do an RTAS call ("stop-cpu") which effectively permantently
> > de-allocates it from the VM hands over the control to hypervisor. The
> > hypervisors may do whatever it wants including allocating it to
> > another VM. Once gone, the original VM may not get it back depending
> > on the situation.
> > 
> > The point I am making is that we may not always want to *release*
> > the CPU to hypervisor and induce a configuration change. That needs
> > to be reflected by extending the existing user interface - hence
> > the proposal for - /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu<#>/state and
> > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu<#>/available_states. It allows
> > ceding to hypervisor without de-allocating. It is a minor
> > extension of the existing interface keeping backwards compatibility
> > and platforms can allow what make sense.
> >
> 
> 
> Agreed, I've tried to come with a little ASCII art to depict your
> scenairos graphically
> 
> 
>         +--------+ don't need (offline)
>         |  OS    +----------->+------------+
>         +--+-----+            | hypervisor +-----> Reuse CPU
>            |                  |            |       for something
>            |                  |            |       else
>            |                  |            |   (visible to users)
>            |                  |            |    as resource changed
>            |                  +----------- +
>            V (needed, but can cede)
>        +------------+
>        | hypervisor | Don't reuse CPU
>        |            |  (CPU ceded)
>        |            | give back to OS
>        +------------+ when needed.
>                         (Not visible to
>                         users as so resource
>                         binding changed)

I still don't get it... _why_ should this be exposed in the guest
kernel? Why not let the hypervisor manage a guest's offline cpus in a
way it sees fit?



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