Message-ID: <20091001100109.GB3636@in.ibm.com>
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:31:09 +0530
From:	"K.Prasad" <prasad@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>
Cc:	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...radead.org>,
	"Frank Ch. Eigler" <fche@...hat.com>, peterz@...radead.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] perf_core: provide a kernel-internal interface to
	get to performance counters

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 10:53:30AM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> 
> * K.Prasad <prasad@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 09:25:18AM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > > 
> > > * Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...radead.org> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:02:46 +0530
> > > > "K.Prasad" <prasad@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:03:28PM -0400, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > For what it's worth, this sort of thing also looks useful from 
> > > > > > systemtap's point of view.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Wouldn't SystemTap be another user that desires support for 
> > > > > multiple/all CPU perf-counters (apart from hw-breakpoints as a 
> > > > > potential user)? As Arjan pointed out, perf's present design would 
> > > > > support only a per-CPU or per-task counter; not both.
> > > > 
> > > > I'm sorry but I think I am missing your point. "all cpu counters" 
> > > > would be one small helper wrapper away, a helper I'm sure the 
> > > > SystemTap people are happy to submit as part of their patch series 
> > > > when they submit SystemTap to the kernel.
> > > 
> > > Yes, and Frederic wrote that wrapper already for the hw-breakpoints 
> > > patches. It's a non-issue and does not affect the design - we can always 
> > > gang up an array of per cpu perf events, it's a straightforward use of 
> > > the existing design.
> > > 
> > 
> > Such a design (iteratively invoking a per-CPU perf event for all 
> > desired CPUs) isn't without issues, some of which are noted here: 
> > (apart from http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/9/14/298).
> > 
> > - It breaks the abstraction that a user of the exported interfaces would
> >   enjoy w.r.t. having all CPU (or a cpumask of CPU) breakpoints.
> 
> CPU offlining/onlining support would be interesting to add.
> 
> > - (Un)Availability of debug registers on every requested CPU is not
> >   known until request for that CPU fails. A failed request should be 
> >   followed by a rollback of the partially successful requests.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > - Any breakpoint exceptions generated due to partially successful
> >   requests (before a failed request is encountered) must be treated as 
> >   'stray' and be ignored (by the end-user? or the wrapper code?).
> 
> Such inatomicity is inherent in using more than one CPU and a disjoint 
> set of hw-breakpoints. If the calling code cares then callbacks 
> triggering while the registration has not returned yet can be ignored.
> 

It can be prevented through book-keeping for debug registers, and
takes a 'greedy' approach that writes values onto the physical registers
only if it is known that there are sufficient slots available on all
desired CPUs (as done by the register_kernel_hw_breakpoint() code in
-tip now).

> > - Any CPUs that become online eventually have to be trapped and
> >   populated with the appropriate debug register value (not something 
> >   that the end-user of breakpoints should be bothered with).
> > 
> > - Modifying the characteristics of a kernel breakpoint (including the
> >   valid CPUs) will be equally painful.
> > 
> > - Races between the requests (also leading to temporary failure of
> >   all CPU requests) presenting an unclear picture about free debug
> >   registers (making it difficult to predict the need for a retry).
> > 
> > So we either have a perf event infrastructure that is cognisant of 
> > many/all CPU counters, or make perf as a user of hw-breakpoints layer 
> > which already handles such requests in a deft manner (through 
> > appropriate book-keeping).
> 
> Given that these are all still in the add-on category not affecting the 
> design, while the problems solved by perf events are definitely in the 
> non-trivial category, i'd suggest you extend perf events with a 'system 
> wide' event abstraction, which:
> 
>  - Enumerates such registered events (via a list)
> 
>  - Adds a CPU hotplug handler (which clones those events over to a new
>    CPU and directs it back to the ring-buffer of the existing event(s)
>    [if any])
> 
>  - Plus a state field that allows the filtering out of stray/premature
>    events.
> 

With some book-keeping (as stated before) in place, stray exceptions due
to premature events would be prevented since only successful requests
are written onto debug registers. There would be no need for a rollback
from the end-user too.

But I'm not sure if such book-keeping variables/data-structures will
find uses in other hw/sw events in perf apart from breakpoints (depends
on whether there's a need for support for multiple instances of a
hw/sw perf counter for a given CPU). If yes, then, the existing
synchronisation mechanism (through spin-locks over hw_breakpoint_lock)
must be extended over other perf events (post integration).

Thanks,
K.Prasad

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