Message-ID: <8004.1256179480@jrobl>
Date:	Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:44:40 +0900
From:	hooanon05@...oo.co.jp
To:	Valerie Aurora <vaurora@...hat.com>
Cc:	Jan Blunck <jblunck@...e.de>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>,
	Andy Whitcroft <apw@...onical.com>,
	Scott James Remnant <scott@...onical.com>,
	Sandu Popa Marius <sandupopamarius@...il.com>,
	Jan Rekorajski <baggins@...h.mimuw.edu.pl>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
	Vladimir Dronnikov <dronnikov@...il.com>,
	Felix Fietkau <nbd@...nwrt.org>, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/40] Writable overlays (union mounts) 


Hi,

Valerie Aurora:
> Here is the current patch set for writable overlays (union mounts).
> It needs lots of review!  Especially the bits where we do nasty things
> with readdir().
> 
> Writable overlays let you mount one read-write file system
> transparently over another read-only file system.  This is useful for
> things like LiveCDs.  Detailed documentation and HOWTO here:

Are these issues what I have pointed out addressed?

========================================
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> I believe 'fallthru' in UnionMount is a good idea. But I am afraid it
> may consume memory too much, particulary when the upper layer is tmpfs.
> While one fallthru entry is small, recent LiveCD contains very many
> files by squashfs and its size grows as DVD. If users try 'find /', then
> many fallthru entires will be created and I am afraid it becomes memory
> pressure.
> How do you think about that?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> I am afraid this issue may not be solved soon. It should be listed in a
> longer term todo list, or no action to be taken (this is a feature).

Hm.  The fallthru entries are only essential when it comes to
directories with mixed top/bottom entries during a readdir().  I can
think of some ways to make fallthrus less common, or to be able to
throw them out.  I will keep this in mind, thanks!

-VAL

========================================
> - link(2) doesn't work
>   When the source file exists on the lower, it returns "Invalid
>   cross-device link" error.
> - Is it an expected behaviour?
>   If UnionMount behaves as an ordinary filesystem, link(2) should work.
>   But UnionMount is not a filesystem actually. So to return the error
>   may be correct. I am not sure which is true.
> 
> Do I make my clear? 

Yes, I understand now.  This comes back to the same userland problem
as rename(); technically userland should support fallback for this,
but many apps assume it can't happen in the same directory.  I think
we could make this work without copying up the file if we make a
fallthru for the target.

In general, it might be good to have a config or mount option to
enable/disable the EXDEV returns, and printk something when the
workaround is triggered.  This would give us a migration path to a
future in which userland utilities can deal with EXDEV in the same
directory.

Both are on my todo list.

-VAL

========================================
> I might find a minor issue about copyup and read(2).
> When two processes open the same file, with O_RDONLY and O_WRONLY
> individually. One of them issues read(2), and the other issues write(2)
> at the same time.
> 
> ProcessA
> - open(O_RDONLY)
> - read
> 
> ProcessB
> - open(O_WRONLY)
> - write
> 
> If read(2) executes before write(2), ProcessA gets the correct latest
> (at that point) filedata. But if write(2) by ProcessB executes first,
> the filedata ProcessA got may be obsoleted since it still refers to the
> file on the lower readonly fs.
> Users may not be aware since it is hard to know whether write(2) was
> executed first, and this issue may be minor.
> 
> This scenario can happen in a single process.
> 
> ProcessC
> - open(O_RDONLY)
> - open(O_WRONLY)
> - write
> - read
> 
> This is not a race condition actually, but ProcessC will get the
> obsoleted filedata. It will not get the filedata which it just wrote.
> While I don't think there exists such application :-), users may think
> it a problem.

I see what you mean!

I guess you can view it as effectively a rename() over the old file -
it's the same as if you instead created a new file, copied all the
data into it, and then renamed it over the old file.  Which is a very
common method of updating files.

It will indeed be interesting to see if any applications break as a
result of this.  Hopefully not, all the solutions I can think of are
quite terrible.

-VAL

========================================

I just want to confirm (and never mean to push you).


J. R. Okajima
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