Date:	Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:31:23 +0900
From:	Minchan Kim <minchan.kim@...il.com>
To:	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
Cc:	KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@...fujitsu.com>,
	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	linux-mm <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	linux-mmc@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/7] mmc: Don't use PF_MEMALLOC

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 09:01 +0900, Minchan Kim wrote:
>> Hi, Peter.
>>
>> First of all, Thanks for the commenting.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org> wrote:
>> > On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 21:51 +0900, Minchan Kim wrote:
>> >> I think it's because mempool reserves memory.
>> >> (# of I/O issue\0 is hard to be expected.
>> >> How do we determine mempool size of each block driver?
>> >> For example,  maybe, server use few I/O for nand.
>> >> but embedded system uses a lot of I/O.
>> >
>> > No, you scale the mempool to the minimum amount required to make
>> > progress -- this includes limiting the 'concurrency' when handing out
>> > mempool objects.
>> >
>> > If you run into such tight corners often enough to notice it, there's
>> > something else wrong.
>> >
>> > I fully agree with ripping out PF_MEMALLOC from pretty much everything,
>> > including the VM, getting rid of the various abuse outside of the VM
>> > seems like a very good start.
>> >
>>
>> I am not against removing PF_MEMALLOC.
>> Totally, I agree to prevent abusing of PF_MEMALLOC.
>>
>> What I have a concern is per-block mempool.
>> Although it's minimum amount of mempool, it can be increased
>> by adding new block driver. I am not sure how many we will have block driver.
>>
>> And, person who develop new driver always have to use mempool and consider
>> what is minimum of mempool.
>> I think this is a problem of mempool, now.
>>
>> How about this?
>> According to system memory, kernel have just one mempool for I/O which
>> is one shared by several block driver.
>>
>> And we make new API block driver can use.
>> Of course, as usual It can use dynamic memoy. Only it can use mempool if
>> system don't have much dynamic memory.
>>
>> In this case, we can control read/write path. read I/O can't help
>> memory reclaiming.
>> So I think read I/O don't use mempool, I am not sure. :)
>
> Sure some generic blocklevel infrastructure might work, _but_ you cannot
> take away the responsibility of determining the amount of memory needed,
> nor does any of this have any merit if you do not limit yourself to that
> amount.

Yes. Some one have to take a responsibility.

The intention was we could take away the responsibility from block driver.
Instead of driver, VM would take the responsibility.

You mean althgouth VM could take the responsiblity, it is hard to
expect amout of pages
needed by block drivers?

Yes, I agree.

>
> Current PF_MEMALLOC usage in the VM is utterly broken in that we can
> have a basically unlimited amount of tasks hit direct reclaim and all of
> them will then consume PF_MEMALLOC, which mean we can easily run out of
> memory.
>
> ( unless I missed the direct reclaim throttle patches going in, which
> isn't at all impossible )

I think we can prevent it at least.  Kosaki already submitted the patches. :)
(too_many_isolated functions).


I am looking forward to kosaki's next version.

Thanks for careful comment, Peter.
Thanks for submitting good issue, Kosaki. :)

>
>
>



-- 
Kind regards,
Minchan Kim
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