Message-ID: <ed628a921002011025i432465acl166b845607546a64@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 1 Feb 2010 10:25:11 -0800
From:	Paul Turner <pjt@...gle.com>
To:	bharata@...ux.vnet.ibm.com
Cc:	Bharata B Rao <bharata.rao@...il.com>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Dhaval Giani <dhaval.giani@...il.com>,
	Balbir Singh <balbir@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Vaidyanathan Srinivasan <svaidy@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Gautham R Shenoy <ego@...ibm.com>,
	Srivatsa Vaddagiri <vatsa@...ibm.com>,
	Kamalesh Babulal <kamalesh@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@...llo.nl>,
	Pavel Emelyanov <xemul@...nvz.org>,
	Herbert Poetzl <herbert@...hfloor.at>,
	Avi Kivity <avi@...hat.com>,
	Chris Friesen <cfriesen@...tel.com>,
	Paul Menage <menage@...gle.com>,
	Mike Waychison <mikew@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC v5 PATCH 0/8] CFS Hard limits - v5

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Paul Turner <pjt@...gle.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Bharata B Rao
> <bharata@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:26:08PM -0800, Paul Turner wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Bharata B Rao <bharata.rao@...il.com> wrote:
>>> > On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 2:15 AM, Paul Turner <pjt@...gle.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> What are your thoughts on using a separate mechanism for the general case.  A
>>> >> draft proposal follows:
>>> >>
>>> >> - Maintain a global run-time pool for each tg.  The runtime specified by the
>>> >>  user represents the value that this pool will be refilled to each period.
>>> >> - We continue to maintain the local notion of runtime/period in each cfs_rq,
>>> >>  continue to accumulate locally here.
>>> >>
>>> >> Upon locally exceeding the period acquire new credit from the global pool
>>> >> (either under lock or more likely using atomic ops).  This can either be in
>>> >> fixed steppings (e.g. 10ms, could be tunable) or following some quasi-curve
>>> >> variant with historical demand.
>>> >>
>>> >> One caveat here is that there is some over-commit in the system, the local
>>> >> differences of runtime vs period represent additional over the global pool.
>>> >> However it should not be possible to consistently exceed limits since the rate
>>> >> of refill is gated by the runtime being input into the system via the per-tg
>>> >> pool.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > We borrow from what is actually available as spare (spare = unused or
>>> > remaining). With global pool, I see that would be difficult.
>>> > Inability/difficulty in keeping the global pool in sync with the
>>> > actual available spare time is the reason for over-commit ?
>>> >
>>>
>>> We maintain two pools, a global pool (new) and a per-cfs_rq pool
>>> (similar to existing rt_bw).
>>>
>>> When consuming time you charge vs your local bandwidth until it is
>>> expired, at this point you must either refill from the global pool, or
>>> throttle.
>>>
>>> The "slack" in the system is the sum of unconsumed time in local pools
>>> from the *previous* global pool refill.  This is bounded above by the
>>> size of time you refill a local pool at each expiry.  We call the size
>>> of refill a 'slice'.
>>>
>>> e.g.
>>>
>>> Task limit of 50ms, slice=10ms, 4cpus, period of 500ms
>>>
>>> Task A runs on cpus 0 and 1 for 5ms each, then blocks.
>>>
>>> When A first executes on each cpu we take slice=10ms from the global
>>> pool of 50ms and apply it to the local rq.  Execution then proceeds vs
>>> local pool.
>>>
>>> Current state is: 5 ms in local pools on {0,1}, 30ms remaining in global pool
>>>
>>> Upon period expiration we issue a global pool refill.  At this point we have:
>>> 5 ms in local pools on {0,1}, 50ms remaining in global pool.
>>>
>>> That 10ms of slack time is over-commit in the system.  However it
>>> should be clear that this can only be a local effect since over any
>>> period of time the rate of input into the system is limited by global
>>> pool refill rate.
>>
>> With the same setup as above consider 5 such tasks which block after
>> consuming 5ms each. So now we have 25ms slack time. In the next bandwidth
>> period if 5 cpu hogs start running and they would consume this 25ms and the
>> 50ms from this period. So we gave 50% extra to a group in a bandwidth period.
>> Just wondering how common such scenarious could be.
>>
>
> Yes within a single given period you may exceed your reservation due
> to slack.  However, of note is that across any 2 successive periods
> you are guaranteed to be within your reservation, i.e. 2*usage <=
> 2*period, as slack available means that you under-consumed your
> previous period.
>
> For those needing a hard guarantee (independent of amelioration
> strategies) halving the period provided would then provide this across
> their target period with the basic v1 implementation.
>

Actually now that I think about it, this observation only holds when
the slack is consumed within the second of the two periods.  It should
be restated something like:

for any n contiguous periods your maximum usage is n*runtime +
nr_cpus*slice, note the slack term is constant and is dominated for
any observation window involving several periods

>>>
>>> There are also some strategies that we are exploring to improve
>>> behavior further here.  One idea is that if we maintain a generation
>>> counter then on voluntary dequeue (e.g. tasks block) we can return
>>> local time to the global period pool or expire it (if generations
>>> don't match), this greatly reduces the noise (via slack vs ideal
>>> limit) that a busty application can induce.
>>
>> Why not clear the remaining runtime during bandwidth refresh ?
>>
>
> This doesn't scale with (many cpus) * (many bandwidth limits).
>
> It is still my intuition that introducing a generation counter for
> quota would allow us to handle this gracefully as that would allow
> both invalidation of expired slack time and for the (potentially
> fractional) returning of local quota to the global pool within a
> period (upon block/voluntary yield).
>
> Such tactics would probably seem better suited for a v2 as there are
> both other possible approaches and the matter of added complexity to
> the basic design.  However, if it works well it might sneak into v1 ;)
>
>>>
>>> >> This would also naturally associate with an interface change that would mean the
>>> >> runtime limit for a group would be the effective cpurate within the period.
>>> >>
>>> >> e.g. by setting a runtime of 200000us on a 100000us period it would effectively
>>> >> allow you to use 2 cpus worth of wall-time on a multicore system.
>>> >>
>>> >> I feel this is slightly more natural than the current definition which due to
>>> >> being local means that values set will not result in consistent behavior across
>>> >> machines of different core counts.  It also has the benefit of being consistent
>>> >> with observed exports of time consumed, e.g. rusage, (indirectly) time, etc.
>>> >
>>> > Though runtimes are enforced locally per-cpu, that's only the
>>> > implementation. The definition of runtime and period is still
>>> > system-wide/global. A runtime/period=0.25/0.5 will mean 0.25s of
>>> > system wide runtime within a period of 0.5s. Talking about consistent
>>> > definition, I would say this consistently defines half of system wide
>>> > wall-time on all configurations :)
>>>
>>> This feels non-intuitive suppose you have a non-homogeneous fleet of
>>> systems.  It is also difficult to express limits in terms of cores,
>>> suppose I'm an admin trying to jail my users (maybe I rent out virtual
>>> time ala EC2 for example).  The fractions I have to use to represent
>>> integer core amounts are going to become quite small on large systems.
>>>  For example, 1 core on a 64 core system would mean 3.905ms/250ms
>>> period.  What's the dependency here between your time and the current
>>> cpuset topology also, if I'm only allowed on half the system does this
>>> fraction then refer to global resources or what I'm constrained to?
>>> This seems a difficult data dependency to manage.
>>>
>>> My (personal) ideology is that we are metering at the cpu level as
>>> opposed to the system level -- which means N seconds of cpu-time makes
>>> more sense to me.  I feel it has advantages in that it can be
>>> specified more directly relative to the period and is independent of
>>> system partitioning.
>>>
>>> I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this.
>>
>> We need a consensus here, will wait to see what others think about this.
>>
>>>
>>> > If it means 2 CPUs worth wall-time
>>> > in 4 core machine, it would mean 4 CPUs on a 8 CPU machine.  At this
>>> > point, I am inclined to go with this and let the admins/tools work out
>>> > the actual CPUs part of it. However I would like to hear what others
>>> > think about this interface.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> For future scalability as machine size grows this could potentially be
>>> >> partitioned below the tg level along the boundaries of sched_domains (or
>>> >> something similar).  However for an initial draft given current machine sizes
>>> >> the contention on the global pool should hopefully be fairly low.
>>> >
>>> > One of the alternatives I have in mind is to be more aggressive while
>>> > borrowing. While keeping the current algorithm (of iterating thro' all
>>> > CPUs when borrowing) intact, we could potentially borrow more from
>>> > those CPUs which don't have any running task from the given group. I
>>> > just experimented with borrowing half of the available runtime from
>>> > such CPUs and found that number of iterations are greatly reduced and
>>> > the source runtime quickly converges to its max possible value. Do you
>>> > see any issues with this ?
>>> >
>>>
>>> I strongly believe that this is going to induce significant lock
>>> contention and is not a scalable solution over time.  While using a
>>> faster converging series for time may help I think there are
>>> confounding factors that limit effect here.  Consider the 1 core on a
>>> 64 core system example above.  With only 3.905ms per pool we are going
>>> to quickly hit the case where we are borrowing not-useful periods of
>>> time while thrashing locks.
>>>
>>> We are in the midst of an implementation for proposal above which
>>> we'll have ready post to here for consideration next week.  We have
>>> maintained your existing approach with respect to handling throttled
>>> entities and layered on top of that the proposed alternate
>>> local/global bandwidth scheme.  Initial tests show very promising
>>> results!
>>
>> Nice. Look forward to your patches.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bharata.
>>
>
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