linux-kernel - Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into a single project

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Message-ID: <4BA67F12.6030501@nagafix.co.uk>
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 2010 03:18:26 +0700
From:	Antoine Martin <antoine@...afix.co.uk>
To:	Avi Kivity <avi@...hat.com>
CC:	Olivier Galibert <galibert@...ox.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>,
	Anthony Liguori <anthony@...emonkey.ws>,
	Pekka Enberg <penberg@...helsinki.fi>,
	"Zhang, Yanmin" <yanmin_zhang@...ux.intel.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@...llo.nl>,
	Sheng Yang <sheng@...ux.intel.com>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, kvm@...r.kernel.org,
	Marcelo Tosatti <mtosatti@...hat.com>,
	oerg Roedel <joro@...tes.org>,
	Jes Sorensen <Jes.Sorensen@...hat.com>,
	Gleb Natapov <gleb@...hat.com>,
	Zachary Amsden <zamsden@...hat.com>, ziteng.huang@...el.com,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@...hat.com>,
	Fr?d?ric Weisbecker <fweisbec@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into a single
 project

On 03/22/2010 03:11 AM, Avi Kivity wrote:
> On 03/21/2010 10:08 PM, Olivier Galibert wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 10:01:51PM +0200, Avi Kivity wrote:
>>> On 03/21/2010 09:17 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>>>> Adding any new daemon to an existing guest is a deployment and 
>>>> usability
>>>> nightmare.
>>>>
>>> The logical conclusion of that is that everything should be built into
>>> the kernel.  Where a failure brings the system down or worse.  Where 
>>> you
>>> have to bear the memory footprint whether you ever use the 
>>> functionality
>>> or not.  Where to update the functionality you need to deploy a new
>>> kernel (possibly introducing unrelated bugs) and reboot.
>>>
>>> If userspace daemons are such a deployment and usability nightmare,
>>> maybe we should fix that instead.
>> Which userspace?  Deploying *anything* in the guest can be a
>> nightmare, including paravirt drivers if you don't have a natively
>> supported in the OS virtual hardware backoff.
>
> That includes the guest kernel.  If you can deploy a new kernel in the 
> guest, presumably you can deploy a userspace package.
That's not always true.
The host admin can control the guest kernel via "kvm -kernel" easily 
enough, but he may or may not have access to the disk that is used in 
the guest. (think encrypted disks, service agreements, etc)

Antoine
>> Deploying things in the
>> host OTOH is business as usual.
>
> True.
>
>> And you're smart enough to know that.
>
> Thanks.
>

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