linux-kernel - Re: [linux-pm] [PATCH 0/8] Suspend block api (version 8)

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Message-ID: <20100601122012.1edeaf48@notabene.brown>
Date:	Tue, 1 Jun 2010 12:20:12 +1000
From:	Neil Brown <neilb@...e.de>
To:	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>
Cc:	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...k.pl>,
	Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>,
	Felipe Balbi <felipe.balbi@...ia.com>,
	Arve Hjønnevåg <arve@...roid.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
	"Paul@...p1.linux-foundation.org" <Paul@...p1.linux-foundation.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Florian Mickler <florian@...kler.org>,
	Linux OMAP Mailing List <linux-omap@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux PM <linux-pm@...ts.linux-foundation.org>,
	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [linux-pm] [PATCH 0/8] Suspend block api (version 8)

On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 03:49:37 +0200 (CEST)
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de> wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, Neil Brown wrote:
> > And if you are right that the race window cannot be closed, then the whole
> > suspend-blocker infrastructure is pointless as the purpose of it is simply to
> > close that window.  If it really does not and cannot work, then it would be
> > best to reject it for that reason rather than for less concrete aesthetic
> > arguments.
> > But presumably it does work in practice on Android hardware so ..... confused.
> > 
> > Having just seen the email from Thomas, maybe you mean that it cannot be
> > closed on devices using ACPI, but can on other devices.  I can sort-of
> > imagine how that would be the case (I tried reading an ACPI spec once - my
> > hat is of to those of you who understand it).
> > That shouldn't prevent us from closing the race window on "sane" hardware
> > that allows it.  This would, I think, be sufficient for Android's needs.
> > 
> > I'm hoping we can get agreement on:
> >   - there is a race with suspend
> 
> That's a matter of how you define "suspend". 

I define "suspend" as

    echo mem > /sys/power/state

> 
> If "suspend" is another deep idle state and the hardware is sane,
> there is no race at all - assumed that the driver/platform developer
> got it right. It's not rocket science to transition from "normal" irq
> delivery to wakeup based delivery raceless (except for PC style x86
> hardware of today)
> 
> If "suspend" is the thing we are used to via /sys/power/state then the
> race will persist forever except for the suspend blocker workaround,
> which we can express in QoS terms as well w/o adding another suspend
> related user space API.

I'm not interested in adding another user-space API if it can possibly be
avoided, and I think it can.  But that is a later step in the process.

I think you have acknowledged that there is a race with suspend - thanks.
Next step was "can it be closed".
You seem to suggest that it can, but you describe it as a "work around"
rather than a "bug fix"...

Do you agree that the race is a "bug", and therefore it is appropriate to
"fix" it assuming an acceptable fix can be found (which I think it can)?

If you agree that it is appropriate for try to fix this bug, then the next
step would be to get the Android devs to agree that a fix could - in
principle - address the need for which they created suspend-blockers.
Arve: can you confirm that?

Then, with a clear and agreed goal, we can look at possible fixes.

Thanks,
NeilBrown

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 	tglx

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