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Message-ID: <20100615114342.GD26788@csn.ul.ie>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:43:42 +0100
From: Mel Gorman <mel@....ul.ie>
To: Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc: Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org,
Chris Mason <chris.mason@...cle.com>,
Nick Piggin <npiggin@...e.de>, Rik van Riel <riel@...hat.com>,
Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>,
Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>,
KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@...fujitsu.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 11/12] vmscan: Write out dirty pages in batch
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 09:15:15PM -0700, Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:20:34 +1000 Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 06:39:57PM -0700, Andrew Morton wrote:
> > > On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:39:43 +1000 Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > IOWs, IMO anywhere there is a context with significant queue of IO,
> > > > that's where we should be doing a better job of sorting before that
> > > > IO is dispatched to the lower layers. This is still no guarantee of
> > > > better IO (e.g. if the filesystem fragments the file) but it does
> > > > give the lower layers a far better chance at optimal allocation and
> > > > scheduling of IO...
> > >
> > > None of what you said had much to do with what I said.
> > >
> > > What you've described are implementation problems in the current block
> > > layer because it conflates "sorting" with "queueing". I'm saying "fix
> > > that".
> >
> > You can't sort until you've queued.
>
> Yes you can. That's exactly what you're recommending! Only you're
> recommending doing it at the wrong level. The fs-writeback radix-tree
> walks do it at the wrong level too. Sorting should be done within, or
> in a layer above the block queues, not within the large number of
> individual callers.
>
> > > And... sorting at the block layer will always be superior to sorting
> > > at the pagecache layer because the block layer sorts at the physical
> > > block level and can handle not-well-laid-out files and can sort and merge
> > > pages from different address_spaces.
> >
> > Yes it, can do that. And it still does that even if the higher
> > layers sort their I/O dispatch better,
> >
> > Filesystems try very hard to allocate adjacent logical offsets in a
> > file in adjacent physical blocks on disk - that's the whole point of
> > extent-indexed filesystems. Hence with modern filesystems there is
> > generally a direct correlation between the page {mapping,index}
> > tuple and the physical location of the mapped block.
> >
> > i.e. there is generally zero physical correlation between pages in
> > different mappings, but there is a high physical correlation
> > between the index of pages on the same mapping.
>
> Nope. Large-number-of-small-files is a pretty common case. If the fs
> doesn't handle that well (ie: by placing them nearby on disk), it's
> borked.
>
> > Hence by sorting
> > where we have a {mapping,index} context, we push out IO that is
> > much more likely to be in contiguous physical chunks that the
> > current random page shootdown.
> >
> > We optimise applications to use these sorts of correlations all the
> > time to improve IO patterns. Why can't we make the same sort of
> > optmisations to the IO that the VM issues?
>
> We can, but it shouldn't be specific to page reclaim. Other places
> submit IO too, and want the same treatment.
>
> > > Still, I suspect none of it will improve anything anyway. Those pages
> > > are still dirty, possibly-locked and need to go to disk. It doesn't
> > > matter from the MM POV whether they sit in some VM list or in the
> > > request queue.
> >
> > Oh, but it does.....
>
> The only difference is that pages which are in the queue (current
> implementation thereof) can't be shot down by truncate.
>
> > > Possibly there may be some benefit to not putting so many of these
> > > unreclaimable pages into the queue all at the the same time. But
> > > that's a shortcoming in the block code: we should be able to shove
> > > arbitrary numbers of dirty page (segments) into the queue and not gum
> > > the system up. Don't try to work around that in the VM.
> >
> > I think you know perfectly well why the system gums up when we
> > increase block layer queue depth: it's the fact that the _VM_ relies
> > on block layer queue congestion to limit the amount of dirty memory
> > in the system.
>
> mm, a little bit still, I guess. Mainly because dirty memory
> management isn't zone aware, so even though we limit dirty memory
> globally, a particular zone(set) can get excessively dirtied.
>
> Most of this problem happen on the balance_dirty_pages() path, where we
> already sort the pages in ascending logical order.
>
> > We've got a feedback loop between the block layer and the VM that
> > only works if block device queues are kept shallow. Keeping the
> > number of dirty pages under control is a VM responsibility, but it
> > is putting limitations on the block layer to ensure that the VM
> > works correctly. If you want the block layer to have deep queues,
> > then someone needs to fix the VM not to require knowledge of the
> > internal operation of the block layer for correct operation.
> >
> > Adding a few lines of code to sort a list in the VM is far, far
> > easier than redesigning the write throttling code....
>
> It's a hack and a workaround. And I suspect it won't make any
> difference, especially given Mel's measurements of the number of dirty
> pages he's seeing coming off the LRU. Although those numbers may well
> be due to the new quite-low dirty memory thresholds.
>
I tested with a dirty ratio of 40 but I didn't see a major problem.
It's still a case with the tests I saw that direct reclaim of dirty pages
was a relatively rare event except when lumpy reclaim was involved. What
did change is the amount of scanning the direct reclaim and kswapd had to do
(both increased quite a bit) but the percentage of dirty pages encountered was
roughly the same (1-2% of scanned pages were dirty in the case of sysbench).
This is sysbench only rather than flooding with more data.
DIRTY RATIO == 20
FTrace Reclaim Statistics
traceonly-v2r5 stackreduce-v2r5 nodirect-v2r5
Direct reclaims 9843 13398 51651
Direct reclaim pages scanned 871367 1008709 3080593
Direct reclaim write async I/O 24883 30699 0
Direct reclaim write sync I/O 0 0 0
Wake kswapd requests 7070819 6961672 11268341
Kswapd wakeups 1578 1500 943
Kswapd pages scanned 22016558 21779455 17393431
Kswapd reclaim write async I/O 1161346 1101641 1717759
Kswapd reclaim write sync I/O 0 0 0
Time stalled direct reclaim (ms) 26.11 45.04 2.97
Time kswapd awake (ms) 5105.06 5135.93 6086.32
User/Sys Time Running Test (seconds) 734.52 712.39 703.9
Percentage Time Spent Direct Reclaim 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
Total Elapsed Time (seconds) 9710.02 9589.20 9334.45
Percentage Time kswapd Awake 0.06% 0.00% 0.00%
DIRTY RATIO == 40
FTrace Reclaim Statistics
traceonly-v2r5 stackreduce-v2r5 nodirect-v2r5
Direct reclaims 29945 41887 163006
Direct reclaim pages scanned 2853804 3075288 13142072
Direct reclaim write async I/O 51498 63662 0
Direct reclaim write sync I/O 0 0 0
Wake kswapd requests 11899105 12466894 15645364
Kswapd wakeups 945 891 522
Kswapd pages scanned 20401921 20674788 11319791
Kswapd reclaim write async I/O 1381897 1332436 1711266
Kswapd reclaim write sync I/O 0 0 0
Time stalled direct reclaim (ms) 131.78 165.08 5.47
Time kswapd awake (ms) 6321.11 6413.79 6687.67
User/Sys Time Running Test (seconds) 709.91 718.39 664.28
Percentage Time Spent Direct Reclaim 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
Total Elapsed Time (seconds) 9579.90 9700.42 9101.05
Percentage Time kswapd Awake 0.07% 0.00% 0.00%
I guess what was really interesting was that even though raising the
dirty ratio allowed the test to complete faster, the percentage of time
spent in direct reclaim increased quite a lot. Again, just stopping
writeback in direct reclaim seemed to help.
> It would be interesting to code up a little test patch though, see if
> there's benefit to be had going down this path.
>
I'll do this just to see what it looks like. To be frank, I lack taste when
it comes to how the block layer and filesystem should behave so am having
troube deciding if sorting the pages prior to submission is a good thing or
if it would just encourage bad or lax behaviour in the IO submission queueing.
--
Mel Gorman
Part-time Phd Student Linux Technology Center
University of Limerick IBM Dublin Software Lab
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