Message-ID: <AANLkTimiNKRabIDCLvRwxVfdwuvt76PbDuTn2RocZLVG@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 1 Jul 2010 20:42:59 -0400
From:	Timothy Meade <zt.tmzt@...il.com>
To:	Saravana Kannan <skannan@...eaurora.org>
Cc:	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	dri-devel <dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org>,
	linux-arm-msm@...r.kernel.org, jcrouse@...eaurora.org
Subject: Re: Closed source userspace graphics drivers with an open source 
	kernel component

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Timothy Meade <zt.tmzt@...il.com>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:38 PM
Subject: Closed source userspace graphics drivers with an open source
kernel component
To: Saravana Kannan <skannan@...eaurora.org>
Cc: LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, dri-devel
<dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org>, linux-arm-msm@...r.kernel.org,
jcrouse@...eaurora.org



On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Saravana Kannan <skannan@...eaurora.org> wrote:
>
> Dave Airlie wrote:
>>
>> This is more about initial development stages. We maintain kernel
>> API/ABI for all in-tree drivers, however before we put a driver into
>> mainline, we usually need to redo the crazy interfaces that vendors
>> have come up with. Like 32/64 alignment, passing userspace addresses
>> into the kernel, passing phy addresses to userspace etc. If the
>> userspace binary is closed that process becomes next to impossible.
>
> My 2 cents:
> I think we should leave the onus of fixing the userspace to work with the sane kernel API with the entity trying to get their drivers into the kernel. I think it's a better approach (as in, more likelihood of getting device support) than saying, we will only allow fully open sourced kernel drivers.
>
> -Saravana
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Hello.  I've been working with the developers on the htc-linux project
and following the progress of Android on MSM devices closely for a few
years.  I've been excitied to see DRM/DRI replace PMEM and the Android
specific interfaces be replaced with more Linux-like ones.  The Xorg
driver from Qualcomm uses this same interface for 2D and it's possible
that Android will take the same approach, though it uses 3D and GLES
as a type of abstraction layer for surfaceflinger.  This allows for a
closed 3D driver with an open command submission layer that is in
itself not that different from the split for ATI devices using
radeonhd.  I say this because the alternative for these devices is a
fully closed binary and secrecy surrounding the graphics layers that
ensures that only the OS that ships with the device can ever really be
used and preventing those non-coorporate developers as myself from
utilising GPL code the way we want or even usuing are own cell phones
(in this case).  I would choose a fully open, X based OS even if that
meant only having 2D drivers, but I know that Quic and others aren't
going to develop just a (accelerated) 2D driver, not the kernel
components or userspace but instead rely on the same GLES layer that
Android uses, essentially making X and open environments a second
class citizen on modern mobile hardware.

I hope those making the decision will take this into consideration.

--
Timothy Meade (tmzt on freenode)
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