Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1007120236500.5188@asgard.lang.hm>
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 2010 02:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
From:	david@...g.hm
To:	Takuya Yoshikawa <yoshikawa.takuya@....ntt.co.jp>
cc:	Fernando Luis Vazquez Cao <fernando@....ntt.co.jp>,
	kvm@...r.kernel.org,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	mori.keisuke@....ntt.co.jp, Chris Wright <chrisw@...hat.com>,
	Dor Laor <dlaor@...hat.com>, Lon Hohberger <lhh@...hat.com>,
	"Perry N. Myers" <pmyers@...hat.com>,
	Luiz Capitulino <lcapitulino@...hat.com>, berrange@...hat.com
Subject: Re: [RFC] High availability in KVM

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Takuya Yoshikawa wrote:

>
> I see that it can be done with HA plus external scripts.
>
> But don't you think we need a way to confirm that vm is in a known quiesced
> state?
>
> Although might not be the exact same scenario, here is what we are planning
> as one possible next step (polling case):
>
> ==============================================================================
> A. Current management: "Qemu/KVM + HA using libvirt interface"
>
> - Pacemaker interacts with RA(Resource Agent) through OCF interface.
> - RA interacts with Qemu using virsh commands, IOW through libvirt interface.
>
>   Pacemaker...(OCF)....RA...(libvirt)...Qemu
>       |                 |                 |
>       |                 |                 |
> 1:     +---- start ----->+---------------->+ state=RUNNING
>       |                 |                 |
>       +---- monitor --->+---- domstate -->+
> 2:     |                 |                 |
>       +<---- "OK" ------+<--- "RUNNING" --+
>       |                 |                 |
>       |                 |                 |
>       |                 |                 * Error: state=SHUTOFF, or ...
>       |                 |                 |
>       |                 |                 |
>       +---- monitor --->+---- domstate -->+
> 3:     |                 |                 |
>       +<-- "STOPPED" ---+<--- "SHUTOFF" --+
>       |                 |                 |
>       +---- stop ------>+---- shutdown -->+ VM killed (if still alive)
> 4:     |                 |                 |
>       +<---- "OK" ------+<--- "SHUTOFF" --+
>       |                 |                 |
>       |                 |                 |
>
> 1: Pacemaker starts Qemu.
>
> 2: Pacemaker checks the state of Qemu via RA.
>   RA checks the state of Qemu using virsh(libvirt).
>   Qemu replies to RA "RUNNING"(normally executing), (*1)
>   and RA returns the state to Pacemaker as it's running correctly.
>
>  (*1): libvirt defines the following domain states:
>
>    enum virDomainState {
>
>    VIR_DOMAIN_NOSTATE  = 0 : no state
>    VIR_DOMAIN_RUNNING  = 1 : the domain is running
>    VIR_DOMAIN_BLOCKED  = 2 : the domain is blocked on resource
>    VIR_DOMAIN_PAUSED   = 3 : the domain is paused by user
>    VIR_DOMAIN_SHUTDOWN = 4 : the domain is being shut down
>    VIR_DOMAIN_SHUTOFF  = 5 : the domain is shut off
>    VIR_DOMAIN_CRASHED  = 6 : the domain is crashed
>
>    }
>
>    We took the most common case RUNNING as an example, but this might be
>    other states except for failover targets: SHUTOFF and CRASHED ?
>
>  --- SOME ERROR HAPPENS ---
>
> 3: Pacemaker checks the state of Qemu via RA.
>   RA checks the state of Qemu using virsh(libvirt).
>   Qemu replies to RA "SHUTOFF", (*2)

why would it return 'shutoff' if an error happened instead of 'crashed'?

>   and RA returns the state to Pacemaker as it's already stopped.
>
>  (*2): Currently we are checking "shut off" answer from domstate command.
>   Yes, we should care about both SHUTOFF and CRASHED if possible.
>
> 4: Pacemaker finally tries to confirm if it can safely start failover by
>   sending stop command. After killing Qemu, RA replies to Pacemaker
>   "OK" so that Pacemaker can start failover.
>
> Problems: We lose debuggable information of VM such as the contents of
>   guest memory.

the OCF interface has start, stop, status (running or not) or an error 
(plus API info)

what I would do in this case is have the script notice that it's in 
crashed status and return an error if it's told to start it. This will 
cause pacemaker to start the service on another system.

if it's told to stop it, do whatever you can to save state, but definantly 
pause/freeze the instance and return 'stopped'



no need to define some additional state. As far as pacemaker is concerned 
it's safe as long as there is no chance of it changing the state of any 
shared resources that the other system would use, so simply pausing the 
instance will make it safe. It will be interesting when someone wants to 
investigate what's going on inside the instance (you need to have it be 
functional, but not able to use the network or any shared 
drives/filesystems), but I don't believe that you can get that right in a 
generic manner, the details of what will cause grief and what won't will 
vary from site to site.


> B. Our proposal: "introduce a new domain state to indicate failover-safe"
>
>   Pacemaker...(OCF)....RA...(libvirt)...Qemu
>       |                 |                 |
>       |                 |                 |
> 1:     +---- start ----->+---------------->+ state=RUNNING
>       |                 |                 |
>       +---- monitor --->+---- domstate -->+
> 2:     |                 |                 |
>       +<---- "OK" ------+<--- "RUNNING" --+
>       |                 |                 |
>       |                 |                 |
>       |                 |                 * Error: state=FROZEN
>       |                 |                 |   Qemu releases resources
>       |                 |                 |   and VM gets frozen. (*3)
>       +---- monitor --->+---- domstate -->+
> 3:     |                 |                 |
>       +<-- "STOPPED" ---+<--- "FROZEN" ---+
>       |                 |                 |
>       +---- stop ------>+---- domstate -->+
> 4:     |                 |                 |
>       +<---- "OK" ------+<--- "FROZEN" ---+
>       |                 |                 |
>       |                 |                 |
>
>
> 1: Pacemaker starts Qemu.
>
> 2: Pacemaker checks the state of Qemu via RA.
>   RA checks the state of Qemu using virsh(libvirt).
>   Qemu replies to RA "RUNNING"(normally executing), (*1)
>   and RA returns the state to Pacemaker as it's running correctly.
>
>   --- SOME ERROR HAPPENS ---
>
> 3: Pacemaker checks the state of Qemu via RA.
>   RA checks the state of Qemu using virsh(libvirt).
>   Qemu replies to RA "FROZEN"(VM stopped in a failover-safe state), (*3)
>   and RA keeps it in mind, then replies to Pacemaker "STOPPED".
>
>  (*3): this is what we want to introduce as a new state. Failover-safe means
>    that Qemu released the external resources, including some namespaces, to 
> be
>    available from another instance.

it doesn't need to release the resources. It just needs to not be able to 
modify them.

pacemaker on the host won't try to start another instance on the same 
host, it will try to start an instance on another host. so you don't need 
to worry about releaseing memory, file locks, etc locally. for remote 
resources you _can't_ release them gracefully if you crash, so your apps 
already need to be able to handle that situation. there's no difference to 
the other instances between a machine that gets powered off via STONITH 
and a virtual system that gets paused.

David Lang

> 4: Pacemaker finally tries to confirm if it can safely start failover by
>   sending stop command. Knowing that VM has already stopped in a 
> failover-safe
>   state, RA does not kill Qemu process and replies to Pacemaker "OK" so that
>   Pacemaker can start failover as usual.
>
> ==============================================================================
>
> In any case, we want to confirm that fail over can be safely done.
>
> - I could not find any such API in libvirt.
>
>
>> 
>> providing sample scripts that do this for the various HA stacks makes
>> sense as it gives people examples of what can be done and lets them
>> tailor exactly what does happen to their needs.
>> 
>>> We are pursuing a scenario where current polling-based HA resource
>>> agents are complemented with an event-driven failure notification
>>> mechanism that allows for faster failover times by eliminating the
>>> delay introduced by polling and by doing without fencing. This would
>>> benefit traditional software clustering stacks and bring a feature
>>> that is essential for fault tolerance solutions such as Kemari.
>> 
>> heartbeat/pacemaker has been able to do sub-second failovers for several
>> years, I'm not sure that notification is really needed.
>> 
>> that being said the HA stacks do allow for commands to be fed into the
>> HA system to tell a machine to go active/passive already, so why don't
>> you have your notification just call scripts to make the appropriate calls?
>> 
>>> Additionally, for those who want or need to stick with a polling
>>> model we would like to provide a virtual machine control that
>>> freezes a virtual machine into a failover-safe state without killing
>>> it, so that postmortem analysis is still possible.
>> 
>> how is this different from simply pausing the virtual machine?
>
>
> I think it is almost same as pause, but more precisely all vcpus being 
> stopped
> and all resources except memory being released. This of course should take 
> care
> of namespaces.
>
>
>    Takuya
>
>
>
>> 
>>> In the following sections we discuss the RAS-HA integration
>>> challenges and the changes that need to be made to each component of
>>> the qemu-KVM stack to realize this vision. While at it we will also
>>> delve into some of the limitations of the current hardware error
>>> subsystems of the Linux kernel.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> HARDWARE ERRORS AND HIGH AVAILABILITY
>>> 
>>> The major open source software stacks for Linux rely on polling
>>> mechanisms to detect both software errors and hardware failures. For
>>> example, ping or an equivalent is widely used to check for network
>>> connectivity interruptions. This is enough to get the job done in
>>> most cases but one is forced to make a trade off between service
>>> disruption time and the burden imposed by the polling resource
>>> agent.
>>> 
>>> On the hardware side of things, the situation can be improved if we
>>> take advantage of CPU and chipset RAS capabilities to trigger
>>> failover in the event of a non-recoverable error or, even better, do
>>> it preventively when hardware informs us things might go awry. The
>>> premise is that RAS features such as hardware failure notification
>>> can be leveraged to minimize or even eliminate service
>>> down-times.
>> 
>> having run dozens of sets of HA systems for about 10 years, I find that
>> very few of the failures that I have experianced would have been helped
>> by this. hardware very seldom gives me any indication that it's about to
>> fail, and even when it does fail it's usually only discovered due to the
>> side effects of other things I am trying to do not working.
>> 
>>> Generally speaking, hardware errors reported to the operating system
>>> can be classified into two broad categories: corrected errors and
>>> uncorrected errors. The later are not necessarily critical errors
>>> that require a system restart; depending on the hardware and the
>>> software running on the affected system resource such errors may be
>>> recoverable. The picture looks like this (definitions taken from
>>> "Advanced Configuration and Power Interface Specification, Revision
>>> 4.0a" and slightly modified to get rid of ACPI jargon):
>>> 
>>> - Corrected error: Hardware error condition that has been
>>> corrected by the hardware or by the firmware by the time the
>>> kernel is notified about the existence of an error condition.
>>> 
>>> - Uncorrected error: Hardware error condition that cannot be
>>> corrected by the hardware or by the firmware. Uncorrected errors
>>> are either fatal or non-fatal.
>>> 
>>> o A fatal hardware error is an uncorrected or uncontained
>>> error condition that is determined to be unrecoverable by
>>> the hardware. When a fatal uncorrected error occurs, the
>>> system is usually restarted to prevent propagation of the
>>> error.
>>> 
>>> o A non-fatal hardware error is an uncorrected error condition
>>> from which the kernel can attempt recovery by trying to
>>> correct the error. These are also referred to as correctable
>>> or recoverable errors.
>>> 
>>> Corrected errors are inoffensive in principle, but they may be
>>> harbingers of fatal non-recoverable errors. It is thus reasonable in
>>> some cases to do preventive failover or live migration when a
>>> certain threshold is reached. However this is arguably the job
>>> systems management software, not the HA, so this case will not be
>>> discussed in detail here.
>> 
>> the easiest way to do this is to log the correctable errors and let
>> normal log analysis tools notice these errors and decide to take action.
>> trying to make the hypervisor do something here is putting policy in the
>> wrong place.
>> 
>>> Uncorrected errors are the ones HA software cares about.
>>> 
>>> When a fatal hardware error occurs the firmware may decide to
>>> restart the hardware. If the fatal error is relayed to the kernel
>>> instead the safest thing to do is to panic to avoid further
>>> damage. Even though it is theoretically possible to send a
>>> notification from the kernel's error or panic handler, this is a
>>> extremely hardware-dependent operation and will not be considered
>>> here. To detect this type of failures one's old reliable
>>> polling-based resource agent is the way to go.
>> 
>> and in this case you probably cannot trust the system to send
>> notification without damaging things further, simply halting is probably
>> the only safe thing to do.
>> 
>>> Non-fatal or recoverable errors are the most interesting in the
>>> pack. Detection should ideally be performed in a non-intrusive way
>>> and feed the policy engine with enough information about the error
>>> to make the right call. If the policy engine decides that the error
>>> might compromise service continuity it should notify the HA stack so
>>> that failover can be started immediately.
>> 
>> again, log the errors and let existing log analysis/alerting tools
>> decide what action to take.
>> 
>>> Currently KVM is only notified about memory errors detected by the
>>> MCE subsystem. When running on newer x86 hardware, if MCE detects an
>>> error on user-space it signals the corresponding process with
>>> SIGBUS. Qemu, upon receiving the signal, checks the problematic
>>> address which the kernel stored in siginfo and decides whether to
>>> inject the MCE to the virtual machine.
>>> 
>>> An obvious limitation is that we would like to be notified about
>>> other types of error too and, as suggested before, a file-based
>>> interface that can be sys_poll'ed might be needed for that. On a
>>> different note, in a HA environment the qemu policy described
>>> above is not adequate; when a notification of a hardware error that
>>> our policy determines to be serious arrives the first thing we want
>>> to do is to put the virtual machine in a quiesced state to avoid
>>> further wreckage. If we injected the error into the guest we would
>>> risk a guest panic that might detectable only by polling or, worse,
>>> being killed by the kernel, which means that postmortem analysis of
>>> the guest is not possible. Once we had the guests in a quiesced
>>> state, where all the buffers have been flushed and the hardware
>>> sources released, we would have two modes of operation that can be
>>> used together and complement each other.
>> 
>> it sounds like you really need to be running HA at two layers
>> 
>> 1. on the host layer to detect problems with the host and decide to
>> freeze/migrate virtual machines to another system
>> 
>> 2. inside the guests to make sure that the guests that are running (on
>> multiple real machines) continue to provide services.
>> 
>> but what is your alturnative to sending the error into the guest?
>> depending on what the error is you may or may not be able to freeze the
>> guest (it makes no sense to try and flush buffers to a drive that won't
>> accept writes for example)
>> 
>>> - Proactive: A qmp event describing the error (severity, topology,
>>> etc) is emitted. The HA software would have to register to
>>> receive hardware error events, possibly using the libvirt
>>> bindings. Upon receiving the event the HA software would know
>>> that the guest is in a failover-safe quiesced state so it could
>>> do without fencing and proceed to the failover stage directly.
>> 
>> if it's not a fatal error then the system can continue to run (for at
>> least a few more seconds ;-), let such errors get written to syslog and
>> let a tool like SEC (simple event correlator) see the logs and deicde
>> what to do. there's no need to modify the kernel/KVM for this.
>> 
>>> - Passive: Polling resource agents that need to check the state of
>>> the guest generally use libvirt or a wrapper such as virsh. When
>>> the state is SHUTOFF or CRASHED the resource agent proceeds to
>>> the facing stage, which might be expensive and usually involves
>>> killing the qemu process. We propose adding a new state that
>>> indicates the failover-safe state described before. In this
>>> state the HA software would not need to use fencing techniques
>>> and since the qemu process is not killed postmortem analysis of
>>> the virtual machine is still possible.
>> 
>> how do you define failover-safe states? why would the HA software (with
>> the assistance of a log watcher) not be able to do the job itself?
>> 
>> I do think that it's significant that all the HA solutions out there
>> prefer to test if the functionality works rather than watching for log
>> events to say there may be a problem, but there's nothing preventing
>> this from easily being done.
>> 
>> David Lang
>> 
>
>
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