linux-kernel - Re: [patch 1/2] x86_64 page fault NMI-safe

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Message-ID: <4C5D2C9B.5080601@hitachi.com>
Date:	Sat, 07 Aug 2010 18:51:23 +0900
From:	Masami Hiramatsu <masami.hiramatsu.pt@...achi.com>
To:	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
Cc:	Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@...icios.com>,
	Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@...il.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...tedt.homelinux.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@....de>, Li Zefan <lizf@...fujitsu.com>,
	Lai Jiangshan <laijs@...fujitsu.com>,
	Johannes Berg <johannes.berg@...el.com>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@...radead.org>,
	Tom Zanussi <tzanussi@...il.com>,
	KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@...fujitsu.com>,
	Andi Kleen <andi@...stfloor.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>,
	Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@...p.org>,
	"Frank Ch. Eigler" <fche@...hat.com>, Tejun Heo <htejun@...il.com>,
	2nddept-manager@....hitachi.co.jp
Subject: Re: [patch 1/2] x86_64 page fault NMI-safe

Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 15:18 +0900, Masami Hiramatsu wrote:
>> Peter Zijlstra wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2010-08-04 at 10:45 -0400, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
>>>
>>>> How do you plan to read the data concurrently with the writer overwriting the
>>>> data while you are reading it without corruption ?
>>> I don't consider reading while writing (in overwrite mode) a valid case.
>>>
>>> If you want to use overwrite, stop the writer before reading it.
>> For example, would you like to read system audit log always after
>> stop the audit?
>>
>> NO, that's a most important requirement for tracers, especially for
>> system admins (they're the most important users of Linux) to check
>> the system health and catch system troubles.
>>
>> For performance measurement and checking hotspot, one-shot tracing
>> is enough. But it's just for developers. But for the real world
>> computing, Linux is just an OS, users want to run their system,
>> middleware and applications, without troubles. But when they hit
>> a trouble, they wanna shoot it ASAP.
>> The flight recorder mode is mainly for those users.
> 
> You cannot over-write and consistently read the buffer, that's plain
> impossible. With sub-buffers you can swivel a sub-buffer and
> consistently read that, but there is no guarantee the next sub-buffer
> you steal was indeed adjacent to the previous buffer you stole as that
> might have gotten over-written by the active writer while you were
> stealing the previous one.

Right, we cannot ensure that. In over-written mode, reader could lose
some data, because of overwriting by writers. (or writer may fails
to write new data on buffer in non-overwritten mode)
However, I think that doesn't mean this mode is completely useless.
If we can know when(where) the data was lost, the rest of data
is enough useful in some cases.

> If you want to snapshot buffers, do that, simply swivel the whole trace
> buffer, and continue tracing in a new one, then consume the old trace in
> a consistent manner.

Hmm, would that consume much more memory compared with sub-buffer
ring buffer if we have spare buffers?
Or, if allocating it after reader opens buffer, will it also slow
down the reader process?

> I really see no value in being able to read unrelated bits and pieces of
> a buffer.

I think there is a trade-off of perfect snapshot and consuming memory,
and it depends on use-case in many cases.

> 
> So no, I will _not_ support reading an over-write buffer while there is
> an active reader.
> 

I hope you to reconsider how over-write buffer is useful even if
it is far from perfect.

Thank you,

-- 
Masami HIRAMATSU
2nd Research Dept.
Hitachi, Ltd., Systems Development Laboratory
E-mail: masami.hiramatsu.pt@...achi.com
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