Message-ID: <4E30C46F.2030903@canonical.com>
Date:	Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:07:43 -0700
From:	Chase Douglas <chase.douglas@...onical.com>
To:	Daniel Kurtz <djkurtz@...omium.org>
CC:	dmitry.torokhov@...il.com, rydberg@...omail.se,
	rubini@...l.unipv.it, linux-input@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, derek.foreman@...labora.co.uk,
	daniel.stone@...labora.co.uk, olofj@...omium.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 7/9 v2] Input: synaptics - improved 2->3 finger transition
 handling

On 07/27/2011 06:00 PM, Daniel Kurtz wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 5:13 AM, Chase Douglas
> <chase.douglas@...onical.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> Would you prefer an implementation that continued to report count (via
>>>>> BTN_TOUCH*) correctly, but dropped down to 0 or 1 MT-B slots when for
>>>>> these cases where it could not determine the correct position or track_id
>>>>> to report?
>>>>
>>>> That may be doable, but I would prefer to just assume that tracking ids
>>>> are not valid when (tracked touches > reported touches).
>>>
>>> Userspace is free to make this assumption, of course, but, in fact,
>>> the image sensor trackpad actually does a pretty good job of tracking
>>> the fingers - it just has serious issues reporting them!
>>> Since a track_id change is how userspace is told that the identity of
>>> the reported finger is changing, if the track_id of a finger position
>>> datum is unknowable, I'd rather just discard it in the kernel than
>>> report it to userspace with the wrong track_id.
>>> Otherwise, the heuristics used in the userspace finger tracking
>>> algorithms would need to be overly aggressively tuned to handle this
>>> known error cases:
>>>   2->3 and 3->2 finger transitions look like 2nd finger motion,
>>> instead of reported finger changes.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It seems like it would be more work for userspace to handle this new way
>>>>> than the simulated number-of-touch transitions, where the transient
>>>>> states are all normal valid states.
>>>>
>>>> This harkens back to my earlier statements where I said this new
>>>> Synaptics protocol is worse than the previous one :).
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the implementation you gave here might be trickier for
>>>> userspace, so I'd rather table it unless you feel that the "tracking ids
>>>> are meaningless!" solution won't work. If you think there are problems
>>>> with that approach, we can re-evaluate.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> -- Chase
>>>
>>> Yes, I feel there are problems with this approach, as I tried to explain above.
>>> Can you explain why you 'continuation gestures' can't handle 1->2->3
>>> finger transitions looking like 1->2->1->3, and 3->2->3 looking like
>>> 3->2->0->3?
>>>
>>> I think the only real point left to decide is what BTN_* events should
>>> signify during these rare transition states:
>>>   (a) the actually number of fingers on the pad,
>>>   (b) the number of fingers being reported via the slots
>>>
>>> The current patchset does (a).
>>> We could do (b), if that would get these patches accepted sooner :)
>>
>> I was thinking that the current patchset does (b). I think (a) is
>> better, and if it really works that way then I'm fine with it. It's hard
>> for me to keep track of the flow of the logic across the patches :).
> 
> Argh, my bad.  You are correct.  Current patchset does (b)!
> It reports the number of active slots, not the number of touches.
> 
> In any case, I really don't know why you need (a).  We are talking
> about some degenerate transitions here.  Your userspace driver should
> work just fine with the (b) driver, it just loses some really
> complicated continued gestures for hardware that can't support them.

To give userspace incorrect information about the number of touches on
the device is always bad. Lets say the degenerate case is when you go
from two touches to three (maybe Synaptics doesn't do this, but someone
else might). When the user performs a three finger tap, we'd see two
touches down, two lifted up, three touches down, three lifted up in
short succession. Userspace is gonna get pretty confused about that :).

(Please don't make me try to come up with a use case we already have in
Unity that would be broken for Synaptics due to this. I could probably
find one, but it would take quite a bit of thinking. :)

>> That said, merging this patchset as is effectively means that the number
>> of slots is completely decoupled from the number of touches on the
>> device. Previously, one could say that the number of touches on the
>> device was equal to the number of open slots or more if all slots were
>> open. With this approach, we could have 0 slots open during a transition
>> when there are still touches down.
>>
>> While the distinction makes sense for these synaptics devices, I don't
>> want the semantics to hold for full multitouch devices. Otherwise, we
>> would have to add many more BTN_*TAPs. If we go this route, we must have
>> a way to tell userspace that this is a special device where the number
>> of active touches can only be determined from BTN_*TAP. Thus, we would
>> need a property for this exception to normal behavior.
> 
> Henrik & Dmitry roughly suggested "do not define a new property; let
> userspace detect max BTN_*TAP > ABS_MT_SLOT.max to indicate that
> BTN_*TAP carries the total number of touches".  I wish they would
> chime in on this patchset...

I think it sets a really bad precedent to obey the stated protocol in
most cases, but disregard it in others if specific conditions are met,
which are not documented and are not presented in a clear manner to
userspace. At the *very least*, this change would need documentation to
go in at the same time, but I strongly believe a property is merited here.

-- Chase
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