Message-ID: <4F838584.1020002@kernel.org>
Date:	Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:57:40 +0900
From:	Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org>
To:	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>
CC:	linaro-kernel@...ts.linaro.org, android-kernel@...glegroups.com,
	linux-mm@...ck.org, "Luca Porzio (lporzio)" <lporzio@...ron.com>,
	Alex Lemberg <alex.lemberg@...disk.com>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Saugata Das <saugata.das@...aro.org>,
	Venkatraman S <venkat@...aro.org>,
	Yejin Moon <yejin.moon@...sung.com>,
	Hyojin Jeong <syr.jeong@...sung.com>,
	"linux-mmc@...r.kernel.org" <linux-mmc@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: swap on eMMC and other flash

2012-04-09 오후 9:35, Arnd Bergmann 쓴 글:

> On Monday 09 April 2012, Minchan Kim wrote:
>> 2012-04-07 오전 1:16, Arnd Bergmann 쓴 글:
>>
>>> larger chunks would generally be helpful, in order to guarantee that we
>>> the drive doesn't do any garbage collection, we would have to do all writes
>>
>>
>> And we should guarantee for avoiding unnecessary swapout, even OOM killing.
>>
>>> in aligned chunks. It would probably be enough to do this in 8kb or
>>> 16kb units for most devices over the next few years, but implementing it
>>> for 64kb should be the same amount of work and will get us a little bit
>>> further.
>>
>>
>> I understand it's best for writing 64K in your statement.
>> What the 8K, 16K? Could you elaborate relation between 8K, 16K and 64K?
> 
> From my measurements, there are three sizes that are relevant here:
> 
> 1. The underlying page size of the flash: This used to be less than 4kb,
> which is fine when paging out 4kb mmu pages, as long as the partition is
> aligned. Today, most devices use 8kb pages and the number is increasing
> over time, meaning we will see more 16kb page devices in the future and
> presumably larger sizes after that. Writes that are not naturally aligned
> multiples of the page size tend to be a significant problem for the
> controller to deal with: in order to guarantee that a 4kb write makes it
> into permanent storage, the device has to write 8kb and the next 4kb
> write has to go into another 8kb page because each page can only be
> written once before the block is erased. At a later point, all the partial
> pages get rewritten into a new erase block, a process that can take
> hundreds of miliseconds and that we absolutely want to prevent from
> happening, as it can block all other I/O to the device. Writing all
> (flash) pages in an erase block sequentially usually avoids this, as
> long as you don't write to many different erase blocks at the same time.
> Note that the page size depends on how the controller combines different
> planes and channels.
> 
> 2. The super-page size of the flash: When you have multiple channels
> between the controller and the individual flash chips, you can write
> multiple pages simultaneously, which means that e.g. sending 32kb of
> data to the device takes roughly the same amount of time as writing a
> single 8kb page. Writing less than the super-page size when there is
> more data waiting to get written out is a waste of time, although the
> effects are much less drastic as writing data that is not aligned to
> pages because it does not require garbage collection.
> 
> 3. optimum write size: While writing larger amounts of data in a single
> request is usually faster than writing less, almost all devices
> I've seen have a sharp cut-off where increasing the size of the write
> does not actually help any more because of a bottleneck somewhere
> in the stack. Writing more than 64kb almost never improves performance
> and sometimes reduces performance.


For our understanding, you mean we have to do aligned-write as follows
if possible?

"Nand internal page size write(8K, 16K)" < "Super-page size write(32K)
which considers parallel working with number of channel and plane" <
some sequential big write (64K)

> 
> From the I've done, a typical profile could look like
> 
> Size	Throughput
> 1KB	200KB/s
> 2KB	450KB/s
> 4KB	1MB/s
> 8KB	4MB/s		<== page size
> 16KB	8MB/s
> 32KB	16MB/s		<== superpage size
> 64KB	18MB/s		<== optimum size
> 128KB	17MB/s
> ...
> 8MB	18MB/s		<== erase block size
> 
>>> I'm not sure what we would do when there are less than 64kb available
>>> for pageout on the inactive list. The two choices I can think of are
>>> either not writing anything, or wasting the swap slots and filling
>>
>>
>> No wrtite will cause unnecessary many pages to swap out by next prioirty
>> of scanning and we can't gaurantee how long we wait to queue up to 64KB
>> in anon pages. It might take longer than GC time so we need some deadline.
>>
>>
>>> up the data with zeroes.
>>
>>
>> Zero padding would be a good solution but I have a concern on WAP so we
>> need smart policy.
>>
>> To be honest, I think swapout is normally asynchonous operation so that
>> it should not affect system latency rather than swap read which is
>> synchronous operation. So if system is low memory pressure, we can queue
>> swap out pages up to 64KB and then batch write-out in empty cluster. If
>> we don't have any empty cluster in low memory pressure, we should write
>> out it in partial cluster. Maybe it doesn't affect system latency
>> severely in low memory pressure.
> 
> The main thing that can affect system latency is garbage collection
> that blocks any other reads or writes for an extended amount of time.
> If we can avoid that, we've got the 95% solution.


I see.

> 
> Note that eMMC-4.5 provides a high-priority interrupt mechamism that
> lets us interrupt the a write that has hit the garbage collection
> path, so we can send a more important read request to the device.
> This will not work on other devices though and the patches for this
> are still under discussion.


Nice feature but I think swap system doesn't need to consider such
feature. I should be handled by I/O subsystem like I/O scheduler.

> 
>> If system memory pressure is high(and It shoud be not frequent),
>> swap-out B/W would be more important. So we can reserve some clusters
>> for it and I think we can use page padding you mentioned in this case
>> for reducing latency if we can queue it up to 64KB within threshold time.
>>
>> Swap-read is also important. We have to investigate fragmentation of
>> swap slots because we disable swap readahead in non-rotation device. It
>> can make lots of hole in swap cluster and it makes to find empty
>> cluster. So for it, it might be better than enable swap-read in
>> non-rotation devices, too.
> 
> Yes, reading in up to 64kb or at least a superpage would also help here,
> although there is no problem reading in a single cpu page, it will still
> take no more time than reading in a superpage.
> 
>>>>> 2) Make variable sized swap clusters. Right now, the swap space is
>>>>> organized in clusters of 256 pages (1MB), which is less than the typical
>>>>> erase block size of 4 or 8 MB. We should try to make the swap cluster
>>>>> aligned to erase blocks and have the size match to avoid garbage collection
>>>>> in the drive. The cluster size would typically be set by mkswap as a new
>>>>> option and interpreted at swapon time.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If we can find such big contiguous swap slots easily, it would be good.
>>>> But I am not sure how often we can get such big slots. And maybe we have to
>>>> improve search method for getting such big empty cluster.
>>>
>>> As long as there are clusters available, we should try to find them. When
>>> free space is too fragmented to find any unused cluster, we can pick one
>>> that has very little data in it, so that we reduce the time it takes to
>>> GC that erase block in the drive. While we could theoretically do active
>>> garbage collection of swap data in the kernel, it won't get more efficient
>>> than the GC inside of the drive. If we do this, it unfortunately means that
>>> we can't just send a discard for the entire erase block.
>>
>>
>> Might need some compaction during idle time but WAP concern raises again. :(
> 
> Sorry for my ignorance, but what does WAP stand for?


I should have written more general term. I means write amplication but
WAF(Write Amplication Factor) is more popular. :(

> 
> 	Arnd
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-mmc" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> 



-- 
Kind regards,
Minchan Kim
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Powered by blists - more mailing lists