Message-ID: <CAOJsxLG1+zhOKgi2Rg1eSoXSCU8QGvHVED_EefOOLP-6JbMDkg@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 8 May 2012 10:36:31 +0300
From:	Pekka Enberg <penberg@...nel.org>
To:	KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@...il.com>
Cc:	Anton Vorontsov <anton.vorontsov@...aro.org>,
	Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org>,
	Leonid Moiseichuk <leonid.moiseichuk@...ia.com>,
	John Stultz <john.stultz@...aro.org>, linux-mm@...ck.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linaro-kernel@...ts.linaro.org,
	patches@...aro.org, kernel-team@...roid.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/3] vmevent: Implement special low-memory attribute

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:11 AM, KOSAKI Motohiro
<kosaki.motohiro@...il.com> wrote:
> Ok, sane. Then I take my time a little and review current vmevent code briefly.
> (I read vmevent/core branch in pekka's tree. please let me know if
> there is newer repositry)

It's the latest one.

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:11 AM, KOSAKI Motohiro
<kosaki.motohiro@...il.com> wrote:
> 1) sample_period is brain damaged idea. If people ONLY need to
> sampling stastics, they
>  only need to read /proc/vmstat periodically. just remove it and
> implement push notification.
>  _IF_ someone need unfrequent level trigger, just use
> "usleep(timeout); read(vmevent_fd)"
>  on userland code.

That comes from a real-world requirement. See Leonid's email on the topic:

https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/5/2/42

> 2) VMEVENT_ATTR_STATE_ONE_SHOT is misleading name. That is effect as
> edge trigger shot. not only once.

Would VMEVENT_ATTR_STATE_EDGE_TRIGGER be a better name?

> 3) vmevent_fd() seems sane interface. but it has name space unaware.
> maybe we discuss how to harmonize name space feature.  No hurry. but we have
> to think that issue since at beginning.

You mean VFS namespaces? Yeah, we need to take care of that.

> 4) Currently, vmstat have per-cpu batch and vmstat updating makes 3
> second delay at maximum.
>  This is fine for usual case because almost userland watcher only
> read /proc/vmstat per second.
>  But, for vmevent_fd() case, 3 seconds may be unacceptable delay. At
> worst, 128 batch x 4096
>  x 4k pagesize = 2G bytes inaccurate is there.

That's pretty awful. Anton, Leonid, comments?

> 5) __VMEVENT_ATTR_STATE_VALUE_WAS_LT should be removed from userland
> exporting files.
>  When exporing kenrel internal, always silly gus used them and made unhappy.

Agreed. Anton, care to cook up a patch to do that?

> 6) Also vmevent_event must hide from userland.

Why? That's part of the ABI.

> 7) vmevent_config::size must be removed. In 20th century, M$ API
> prefer to use this technique. But
>  They dropped the way because a lot of application don't initialize
> size member and they can't use it for keeping upper compitibility.

It's there to support forward/backward ABI compatibility like perf
does. I'm going to keep it for now but I'm open to dropping it when
the ABI is more mature.

> 8) memcg unaware
> 9) numa unaware
> 10) zone unaware

Yup.

> And, we may need vm internal change if we really need lowmem
> notification. current kernel don't have such info. _And_ there is one more
> big problem. Currently the kernel maintain memory per
> zone. But almost all userland application aren't aware zone nor node.
> Thus raw notification aren't useful for userland. In the other hands, total
> memory and total free memory is useful? Definitely No!
> Even though total free memory are lots, system may start swap out and
> oom invokation. If we can't oom invocation, this feature has serious raison
> d'etre issue. (i.e. (4), (8), (9) and (19) are not ignorable issue. I think)

I'm guessing most of the existing solutions get away with
approximations and soft limits because they're mostly used on UMA
embedded machines.

But yes, we need to do better here.
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