Message-Id: <5A5C45CB-CDF8-4D93-8698-46A27143ABFA@antoniou-consulting.com>
Date:	Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:47:47 +0100
From:	Pantelis Antoniou <panto@...oniou-consulting.com>
To:	Stephen Warren <swarren@...dotorg.org>
Cc:	Grant Likely <grant.likely@...retlab.ca>,
	Rob Herring <robherring2@...il.com>,
	Deepak Saxena <dsaxena@...aro.org>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crashing.org>,
	Scott Wood <scottwood@...escale.com>,
	Tony Lindgren <tony@...mide.com>,
	Kevin Hilman <khilman@...com>, Matt Porter <mporter@...com>,
	Koen Kooi <koen@...inion.thruhere.net>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Felipe Balbi <balbi@...com>, Russ Dill <Russ.Dill@...com>,
	linux-omap@...r.kernel.org, devicetree-discuss@...ts.ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [RFC] Device Tree Overlays Proposal (Was Re: capebus moving omap_devices to mach-omap2)

Hi Stephen,

On Nov 6, 2012, at 11:37 PM, Stephen Warren wrote:

> On 11/05/2012 01:40 PM, Grant Likely wrote:
>> Hey folks,
>> 
>> As promised, here is my early draft to try and capture what device
>> tree overlays need to do and how to get there. Comments and
>> suggestions greatly appreciated.
> 
> Interesting. This just came up internally at NVIDIA within the last
> couple weeks, and was discussed on the U-Boot mailing list very recently
> too:
> 
> http://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2012-October/thread.html#138227
> (it spills into the November archive too)

I am aware of this discussion. For our use case u-boot DT manipulation was
tried, but then abandoned. Asking our user base to modify anything in u-boot
was ruled out.
 
> 
>> For these cases it is proposed to implement an overlay feature for the
>> so that the initial device tree data can be modified by userspace at
> 
> I don't know if you're maintaining this as a document and taking patches
> to it, but if so:
> 
> "for the so" split across those two lines.
> 
>> Jane solves this problem by storing an FDT overlay for each cape in the
>> root filesystem. When the kernel detects that a cape is installed it
>> reads the cape's eeprom to identify it and uses request_firmware() to
>> obtain the appropriate overlay. Userspace passes the overlay to the
>> kernel in the normal way. If the cape doesn't have an eeprom, then the
>> kernel will still use firmware_request(), but userspace needs to already
>> know which cape is installed.
> 
> As mentioned by Pantelis, multiple versions of a board is also very
> common. We already have the following .dts files in the kernel where
> this applies, for the main board even:
> 
> arch/arm/boot/dts/tegra30-cardhu.dtsi
> arch/arm/boot/dts/tegra30-cardhu-a02.dts
> arch/arm/boot/dts/tegra30-cardhu-a04.dts
> 

Exactly. I've made this point in another email, but IMHO board-revision
management is exactly the same with cape revision management.

Ideally you'd like to get rid of those three, and replace it with only
one that's properly versioned.


>> Summary points:
> 
>>  - SHOULD reliably handle changes between different underlying overlays
>>    (ie. what happens to existing .dtb overly files if the structure of
>>    the dtb it is layered over changes. If not possible, then SHALL
>>    detect when the base tree doesn't match and refuse to apply the
>>    overlay.
> 
> Perhaps use (versioned) DT bindings to represent the interface between
> the two .dts files? See the links to the U-Boot mailing list discussions
> below?
> 
>> - What is the model for overlays?
>>  - Can an overlay modify existing properties?
>>  - Can an overlay add new properties to existing nodes?
>>  - Can an overlay delete existing nodes/properties?
> 
> This proposal is very oriented at an overlay-based approach. I'm not
> totally convinced that a pure overlay approach (as in how dtc does
> overlayed DT nodes) will be flexible enough, but would love to be
> persuaded. Again see below.
> 
>> It may be sufficient to solve it by making the phandle values less
>> volatile. Right now dtc generates phandles linearly. Generated phandles
>> could be overridden with explicit phandle properties, but it isn't a
>> fantastic solution. Perhaps generating the phandle from a hash of the
>> node name would be sufficient.
> 
> Node names don't have to be unique though right; perhaps hash the
> path-name instead of the node-name? But then, why not just reference by
> path name; similar to <{&/path/to/node}> rather than <&label>?
> 

It would work for references to the known base DTS. If you have a
cape that's cross-device compatible that can simply fail.

I like this for it's simplicity though.

>> This handles many of the use cases, but it assumes that an overlay is
>> board specific. If it ever is required to support multiple base boards
>> with a single overlay file then there is a problem. The .dtb overlays
>> generated in this manor cannot handle different phandles or nodes that
>> are in a different place. On the other hand, the overlay source files
>> should have no problem being compiled for multiple targets.
> 
> s/manor/manner/
> 
> I do rather suspect this use-case is quite common. NVIDIA certainly has
> a bunch of development boards with pluggable
> PMIC/audio/WiFi/display/..., and I believe there's some ability to
> re-use the pluggable components with a variety of base-boards.
> 
> Given people within NVIDIA started talking about this recently, I asked
> them to enumerate all the boards we have that support pluggable
> components, and how common it is that some boards support being plugged
> into different main boards. I don't know when that enumeration will
> complete (or even start) but hopefully I can provide some feedback on
> how common the use-case is for us once it's done.
> 
> My earlier thoughts on how to support this included explicit
> inter-board/-component connector objects in the .dts files that allow
> "renaming" of GPIOs, I2C buses, regulators, etc.:
> 
> http://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2012-October/138476.html
> http://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2012-November/138925.html

Sounds very similar to our case.

Very interesting to say the least ;)

Regards

-- Pantelis
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Powered by blists - more mailing lists