linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH] sched: wakeup buddy

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <512F11E6.8060807@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
Date:	Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:14:30 +0800
From:	Michael Wang <wangyun@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	Mike Galbraith <efault@....de>
CC:	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@...llo.nl>,
	Paul Turner <pjt@...gle.com>, Alex Shi <alex.shi@...el.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ram Pai <linuxram@...ibm.com>,
	"Nikunj A. Dadhania" <nikunj@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] sched: wakeup buddy

On 02/28/2013 04:04 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote:
> On Thu, 2013-02-28 at 15:40 +0800, Michael Wang wrote: 
>> Hi, Mike
>>
>> Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> On 02/28/2013 03:18 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2013-02-28 at 14:38 +0800, Michael Wang wrote:
>>>
>>>> +				/*
>>>> +				 * current is the only task on rq and it is
>>>> +				 * going to sleep, current cpu will be a nice
>>>> +				 * candidate for p to run on.
>>>> +				 */
>>>
>>> The sync hint only means it might be going to sleep soon, and even then,
>>> there can still be enough execution overlap to be a win to schedule
>>> cross core.  Sched pipe numbers will always be much prettier if you do
>>> wakeup cpu affine, as it's ~100% scheduler and ~100% sync.
>>
>> Hmm.. so it's the comparison between 'cache benefit - execution overlap'
>> and 'latency - execution overlap'?
> 
> Yeah.  You'll always lose power cross core, and throughput breakeven and
> win depends on convertible overlap, and how much L2 miss etc costs.  For
> sched pipe there is no win, but for other sync hint users there is.
> 
>> I could not estimate how many latency will be added to wait for current
>> going to sleep (it should be faster than access cold data, isn't it?),
>> but I really like the cache benefit, unless sync doesn't means current
>> is going to sleep every time, but that's the promise of WF_SYNC, isn't it?
> 
> It would be nice if it _were_ a promise, but it is not, it's a hint.

Bad to know :(

Should we fix it or this is by designed? The comments after WF_SYNC
cheated me...

Regards,
Michael Wang

> 
>> You may lose
>>> a lot on other stuff if you interpret the hint as gospel truth.
>>
>> Could you please give more details on this point?
> 
> tbench, mysql+oltp, on and on use the sync hint, many things jabber on
> localhost, use the sync hint, and have been shown in cold hard numbers
> to benefit, some things massively from cross core scheduling.  You lose
> for sure at extreme context rates, but it has to be pretty darn high to
> be a guaranteed loser.
> 
> That's why select_idle_sibling() is so very damn annoying.
>>> IMHO, sched pipe is a "how fat have I become" benchmark, not "how well
>>> do I perform".  The scheduler performs well when it makes more work
>>> happen.  Playing ping-pong with yourself is _exercise_, not a job :)
>>
>> That's right, may be I'm using the wrong description, it's the ops/sec
>> which has been doubled, that means 'fat', correct?
> 
> In this case, it means you're not running a kernel with nohz on a chain,
> running two schedulers is more expensive than running one, and missing
> L2 each and every time hurts very badly when the load is ultra skinny.
> 
> -Mike
> 

--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/