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Message-ID: <CAKgNAkgVKnhRT1Lpq4a_UdBKB+tn6XmWSDF2QJXG0aSLtNH6dg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 10:57:40 +0100
From: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@...il.com>
To: Rob Landley <rob@...dley.net>
Cc: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
linux-man <linux-man@...r.kernel.org>,
Linux Containers <containers@...ts.linux-foundation.org>,
lkml <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: For review: pid_namespaces(7) man page
Hi Rob,
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 5:01 AM, Rob Landley <rob@...dley.net> wrote:
> On 02/28/2013 05:24:07 AM, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
[...]
>> DESCRIPTION
>> For an overview of namespaces, see namespaces(7).
>>
>> PID namespaces isolate the process ID number space, meaning
>> that processes in different PID namespaces can have the same
>> PID.
>
>
> Um, perhaps "different processes"? Slightly repetitive, but trying to avoid
> the potential misreading that "a processes can have the same PID in
> different namespaces". (A single process can't be a member of more than one
> namespace. This is not about selective visibility.)
I'm not sure this clarifies things...
>> PID namespaces allow containers to migrate to a new host
>> while the processes inside the container maintain the same
>> PIDs.
>
>
> I thought suspend/resume a container was the simple case. Migration to a new
> host is built on top of that. (On resume in a new container on the same
> system, if other stuff is going on in the system so the available PIDs have
> shifted.)
I'll add some words here on suspend/resume.
>> Likewise, a process in an ancestor namespace can—subject to the
>> usual permission checks described in kill(2)—send signals to
>> the "init" process of a child PID namespace only if the "init"
>> process has established a handler for that signal. (Within the
>> handler, the siginfo_t si_pid field described in sigaction(2)
>> will be zero.) SIGKILL or SIGSTOP are treated exceptionally:
>> these signals are forcibly delivered when sent from an ancestor
>> PID namespace. Neither of these signals can be caught by the
>> "init" process, and so will result in the usual actions associ‐
>> ated with those signals (respectively, terminating and stopping
>> the process).
>
>
> If SIGKILL to init is propogated to all the children of init, is SIGSTOP
> also propogated to all the children? (I.E. will SIGSTOP to container's init
> suspend the whole container, and will SIGCONT resume the whole container? If
> the latter, will it only resume processes that weren't previously stopped?
> :)
Covered by Eric.
>> To put things another way: a process's PID namespace membership
>> is determined when the process is created and cannot be changed
>> thereafter. Among other things, this means that the parental
>> relationship between processes mirrors the parental between PID
>
>
> mirrors the relationship
Thanks.
>> namespaces: the parent of a process is either in the same
>> namespace or resides in the immediate parent PID namespace.
>>
>> Every thread in a process must be in the same PID namespace.
>> For this reason, the two following call sequences will fail:
>>
>> unshare(CLONE_NEWPID);
>> clone(..., CLONE_VM, ...); /* Fails */
>>
>> setns(fd, CLONE_NEWPID);
>> clone(..., CLONE_VM, ...); /* Fails */
>
>
> They fail with -EUNDOCUMENTED
Added EINVAL, as per Eric's reply. (Eric does that error also apply
for the two new cases you added?).
>> Because the above unshare(2) and setns(2) calls only change the
>> PID namespace for created children, the clone(2) calls neces‐
>> sarily put the new thread in a different PID namespace from the
>> calling thread.
>
>
> Um, no they don't. They fail. That's the point.
(Good catch.)
> They _would_ put the new
> thread in a different PID namespace, which breaks the definition of threads.
>
> How about:
>
> The above unshare(2) and setns(2) calls change the PID namespace of
> children created by subsequent clone(2) calls, which is incompatible
> with CLONE_VM.
I decided on:
The point here is that unshare(2) and setns(2) change the PID
namespace for created children but not for the calling process,
while clone(2) CLONE_VM specifies the creation of a new thread
in the same process.
>> Miscellaneous
>> After creating a new PID namespace, it is useful for the child
>> to change its root directory and mount a new procfs instance at
>> /proc so that tools such as ps(1) work correctly. (If a new
>> mount namespace is simultaneously created by including
>> CLONE_NEWNS in the flags argument of clone(2) or unshare(2)),
>> then it isn't necessary to change the root directory: a new
>> procfs instance can be mounted directly over /proc.)
>
>
> Why is the (If) clause in parentheses? And unshare(2)) has a Bruce.
> (I.E. unbalanced parens.).
I'll make some fixes here.
>> Calling readlink(2) on the path /proc/self yields the process
>> ID of the caller in the PID namespace of the procfs mount
>> (i.e., the PID namespace of the process that mounted the
>> procfs).
>
>
> This is per-filesystem rather than using the process's namespace because...?
> (Where /proc/self points is already process-local data, so the races here
> can't be too horrible...)
Explained by Eric.
I'll add:
[[
This can be useful for introspection purposes,
when a process wants to discover its PID in other namespaces.
]]
[...]
>> CONFORMING TO
>> Namespaces are a Linux-specific feature.
>
>
> And yet the glibc guys insist on #define GNU_GNU_GNU_ALL_HAIL_STALLMAN in
> order to access this Linux-specific feature which has nothing whatsoever to
> do with the FSF.
This is a misunderstanding. _GNU_SOURCE is the standard way to expose
Linux-specific functionality from POSIX header files.
> The unshare() call originally _didn't_ require this define, but they
> retroactively added the requirement in a version "upgrade" to match your man
> page. This made me sad. It also made me prototype it myself rather than
> expecting the header to provide it.
Hmmm. I did not notice that change. Ulrich rejected my early (2007)
request for a change
(http://www.sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4749) and then
quietly made it later (glibc 2.14, 2011).
Thanks for the review, Rob.
Cheers,
Michael
--
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Author of "The Linux Programming Interface"; http://man7.org/tlpi/
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