Date:	Wed, 06 Mar 2013 10:42:31 -0500
From:	Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@...hat.com>
Cc:	Eric Paris <eparis@...isplace.org>,
	linux kernel mailing list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	LSM List <linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: IMA: How to manage user space signing policy with others

On Tue, 2013-03-05 at 16:53 -0500, Vivek Goyal wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 05, 2013 at 03:40:18PM -0500, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> > On Tue, 2013-03-05 at 10:18 -0500, Vivek Goyal wrote:
> > 
> > > Can we do following. (Just modifying your proposal little bit).
> > > 
> > > - Implement a new policy say ima_mem_exec. This policy can vary based on
> > >   config options. This will be the default policy. 
> > 
> > Just to clarify, the default is the existing null policy.  When
> > 'secureboot' is enabled, ima_mem_exec will be the default policy.
> 
> Ok, I can do that. I will compile in memlock_exec_appraise policy based on
> config option. But this policy will take affect only if.
> 
> - user enables it using command line option ima_memlock_exec_appraise
> - Or secureboot is enabled.
> 
> So that way, systems which don't have secureboot enabled, will not see
> the overhead of memlock_exec_appraise policy.
> 
> > 
> > > - ima_mem_exec will be default policy and it can be disabled by passing
> > >   a command line option ima_mem_exec_disable.
> > > 
> > > - If user wants to use ima_apprase_tcb policy, they can pass two command
> > >   line option. (ima_mem_exec_disable  and ima_appraise_tcb).
> > 
> > Both aren't really needed.   Nothing changes for existing users, if
> > 'ima_appraise_tcb' replaces the ima_mem_exec policy. 
> 
> Ok, I can allow ima_appraise_tcb to replace memlock_exec_appraise policy
> (even with secureboot enabled). For the time being this sould not be a
> problem as only side effect is that kdump will not be available on
> secureboot platoforms.
> 
> But if people start building more functionality on user executable
> signing policy, then we might have some issues. I guess will handle that
> once new use cases come up.
> 
> > 
> > > - Similary if user wants to put its own policy using "policy" interface,
> > >   they need to boot kernel with command line option "ima_mem_exec_disable".
> > 
> > Not a good idea, as this would be a new requirement for existing users.
> > Invert the logic.
> 
> Sure. I will allow root to override in-built appraise policy using
> "policy" interface.
> 
> > 
> > > In the end, this is again "either A or B"  mechanism. Both ima_mem_exec
> > > and ima_appraise_tcb are not co-existing. Comand line option just enables
> > > choosing one over other.
> > 
> > Does this impact 'ima_tcb' or only 'ima_appraise_tcb'?
> 
> I think I can keep ima_tcb and ima_appraise_tcb as it is. That is both
> the measure and appraise rules go in single policy (like today).
> 
> > 
> > > The fact that we are able to replace ima_mem_exec policy using command
> > > line, binary loader will need a way to query IMA to find what's the
> > > current policy. If ima_mem_exec has been replaced, then binary loader
> > > will not memlock files and will not raise extra capability to binary. And
> > > this will disable kdump functionality on secureboot platforms. (Something
> > > which I don't like much).
> > 
> > Ok
> 
> Mimi, so you like this idea better than the other idea of keeping two 
> policy chains and running more restrictive rule while resolving flag
> conflicts between two rules?
> 
> I have written some patches to maintain two rule chains and running
> more restrictive rule. I can change it though.

Both options overload the file signature with additional meaning to
indicate these files need 'special' handling (eg. memory locking).  If
we merge rules, then all files with a signature would be processed with
this special handling; in the other case, the special handling is
limited to a particular policy.

The basic premise, that all files with a valid signature need this
special handling, is flawed.  If some other mechanism would be used to
identify these files requiring 'special' handling, then merging of
policy rules would be a non-issue.  We wouldn't even need to merge
rules.

My preference would be to define some other mechanism to identify these
files. (Agreed, using the 'security.ima' xattr, is a kludge.)  With EVM
protection of LSM labels, you might consider defining a policy based on
LSM labels.  Otherwise, consider defining and using a different extended
attribute, or any other file metadata, for this purpose.  Once some
method for identifying these files, other than file signature, is
defined, we could then add a new policy option (eg. memlock) or even
action primitive (eg. appraise_memlock).

As the 'special' handling probably doesn't scale very well, we're better
off not requiring it for all signed files.  Hopefully, the affects of
not having this special privilege, will be limited to only what has been
discussed (eg. kdump).  Even this decision, will require more than my
agreement.

thanks,

Mimi


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