Message-ID: <CALLzPKYrn-vTLnEfQLO6PWQVB+DV=r3Ri9ruQ3gem3ppeJLU4g@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 8 Mar 2013 10:09:48 +0200
From:	"Kasatkin, Dmitry" <dmitry.kasatkin@...el.com>
To:	Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@...hat.com>
Cc:	Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Eric Paris <eparis@...isplace.org>,
	linux kernel mailing list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	LSM List <linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: IMA: How to manage user space signing policy with others

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@...hat.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 07, 2013 at 07:53:50PM +0200, Kasatkin, Dmitry wrote:
>
> [..]
>
> Hi Dmitry,
>
>> Sorry if missed something from this lengthy thread and I repeat something.
>>
>> I have not noticed what functions you propose to export.
>
> Actually I have not come up with functions yet. I have yet to write
> the code. But I was thinking something along the lines of
> verify_signature().
>
>>
>> But for your use case you need to know if file was signed and
>> signature was fine, right?
>
> Right.
>
>> So you want to export a function which returns, for example
>> "iint->flags & IMA_DIGSIG".
>
> Not sure about that but I think you are referring to your patch
> of also exporting the iint->DIGSIG by setting a security flag
> LSM_UNSAFE_DIGSIG in bprm->unsafe. That helps but then more
> issues start cropping up. I will explain issues in detail below.
>
>> If it was no xattr or no signature, then this flag will not be set.
>
> - if iint->DIGSIG is not set then it could mean few things.
>         - There is no xattr or digital signature
>         - Or there is signature but ima is disabled or there is no
>           appraise rule configured.
>
> Now second point can create confusion. It means that a signed file will
> be treated as unsigned and any functionality dependent on file being
> signed will fail. I think it is uintutive.
>
> If there is no xattr or signature, IMA hook can return failure if appraise
> policy is configured. I can't ignore the return code of security hook. So
> I need a separate function just to tell me whether file is signed or
> not.
>
>> If signature verification failed, then hook returns EPERM anyway.
>
> There are few issues here.
>

I fully understand them.
In the past I have implemented attacks to IMA that based on the fact that
verification result is cached...

> - iint->DIGSIG will be set only if ima is enabled and some appraise
>   rule/policy has been enabled. Otherwise it will not be set. It might
>   not be too huge a issue because it just means that a signed file will
>   be treated unsigned and any functionality dependent on file being
>   signed will fail. I think it is uintutive.
>
> - iint->DIGSIG could be set even if file is not signed. How?
>         - Assume system has booted with ima_appraise_tcb policy.
>         - A binary executes. bprm_check() is called and it will
>           set iint->DIGSIG.
>         - root does a direct write to disk blocks where file signature
>           are stored.
>         - File executes again. This time iint->DIGSIG is set but there
>           are no signature on the file.
>
> - File could have invalid signature still iint->DIGSIG could be set and
>   security hook will return success.
>         - Assume system has booted with ima_appraise_tcb policy.
>         - A binary executes. bprm_check() is called and it will
>           set iint->DIGSIG.
>         - User goes ahead and replaces appraise policy with some
>           other policy so no appraisal rule will match for same file.

Policy can only be replaced once. So if policy has been initialized at
early-user-space,
then it cannot be replaced...

>         - User does a direct write to disk on file blocks.
>         - File executes again. This time iint->DIGSIG is set, and
>           IMA hook will return success (as there is no matching appraise
>           rule) and making caller believe file is validly signed.
>
> If we don't cache iint->DIGSIG, I think couple of above issues could be
> solved. But then we also need to make sure digest of file and appraisal
> results not cached either. Caching of everything is in general a issue
> with IMA usage in my scenario. I am not sure why IMA did not address the
> issue of somebody writing directly to disk bypassing file system.

IMA protects against offline attacks.
Runtime protection should be done by DAC/MAC.

But anyway, I fully understand that you want also additional runtime protection.

>
> If we figure a way out to disable caching of everything, then we also
> need to figure out a way to export iint->DIGSIG to callers. Current
> security hooks don't allow returning anything other than success/fail
> status, that means we probably need to create a new function. Seeting
> it in bprm->unsafe alone is not sufficient as I might have to do file
> verification in non executable file code also.

bprm->unsafe was just a very-quick show-case.

>
> In summary, we can still solve the problem we can do few things.
>
> - Provide a reliable way to disable caching of iint->DIGSIG, digest
>   and appraisal results.
>
> - Provide functions to access iint->DIGSIG after every file execution.
>
> - Create a separate callable IMA function which tells whether file is
>   signed or not.
>
> - Provide a way to caller to ensure whether caching is disabled or not
>   in IMA. So that caller can interpret what does result mean.
>
> Thanks
> Vivek


I understand what you want to achieve :)

- Dmitry
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