Message-ID: <CAKfTPtB7yk7Qi3GCJnAjCXGgiSWsAS1mycnO_ap6WFtne+yX3g@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 10 Apr 2013 12:45:17 +0200
From:	Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@...aro.org>
To:	Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@...sung.com>,
	sanjay rawat <sanjay.rawat@...aro.org>
Cc:	Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@...aro.org>,
	Lorenzo Pieralisi <lorenzo.pieralisi@....com>,
	Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@...aro.org>,
	Jonghwa Lee <jonghwa3.lee@...sung.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...k.pl>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux PM list <linux-pm@...r.kernel.org>,
	"cpufreq@...r.kernel.org" <cpufreq@...r.kernel.org>,
	MyungJoo Ham <myungjoo.ham@...sung.com>,
	Kyungmin Park <kyungmin.park@...sung.com>,
	Chanwoo Choi <cw00.choi@...sung.com>,
	"sw0312.kim@...sung.com" <sw0312.kim@...sung.com>,
	Marek Szyprowski <m.szyprowski@...sung.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/2] cpufreq: Introduce LAB cpufreq governor.

On 10 April 2013 11:38, Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@...sung.com> wrote:
> Hi Vincent,
>
>> On 10 April 2013 10:44, Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@...sung.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Vincent,
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tuesday, 9 April 2013, Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@...sung.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Hi Viresh and Vincent,
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 9 April 2013 16:07, Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@...sung.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Jonghwa Lee
>> >> >> > Our approach is a bit different than cpufreq_ondemand one.
>> >> >> > Ondemand takes the per CPU idle time, then on that basis
>> >> >> > calculates per cpu load. The next step is to choose the
>> >> >> > highest load and then use this value to properly scale
>> >> >> > frequency.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On the other hand LAB tries to model different behavior:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > As a first step we applied Vincent Guittot's "pack small
>> >> >> > tasks" [*] patch to improve "race to idle" behavior:
>> >> >> > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1371435/match=sched+pack+small+tasks
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Luckily he is part of my team :)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.linaro.org/linux-on-arm/meet-the-team/power-management
>> >> >>
>> >> >> BTW, he is using ondemand governor for all his work.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Afterwards, we decided to investigate different approach for
>> >> >> > power governing:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Use the number of sleeping CPUs (not the maximal per-CPU
>> >> >> > load) to change frequency. We thereof depend on [*] to "pack"
>> >> >> > as many tasks to CPU as possible and allow other to sleep.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> He packs only small tasks.
>> >> >
>> >> > What's about packing not only small tasks? I will investigate the
>> >> > possibility to aggressively pack (even with a cost of performance
>> >> > degradation) as many tasks as possible to a single CPU.
>> >>
>> >> Hi Lukasz,
>> >>
>> >> I've got same comment on my current patch and I'm preparing a new
>> >> version that can pack tasks more agressively based on the same
>> >> buddy mecanism. This will be done at the cost of performance of
>> >> course.
>> >
>> > Can you share your development tree?
>>
>> The dev is not finished yet but i will share it as soon as possible
>
> Ok
>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > It seems a good idea for a power consumption reduction.
>> >>
>> >> In fact, it's not always true and depends several inputs like the
>> >> number of tasks that run simultaneously
>> >
>> > In my understanding, we can try to couple (affine) maximal number of
>> > task with a CPU. Performance shall decrease, but we will avoid
>> > costs of tasks migration.
>> >
>> > If I remember correctly, I've asked you about some testbench/test
>> > program for scheduler evaluation. I assume that nothing has changed
>> > and there isn't any "common" set of scheduler tests?
>>
>> There are a bunch of bench that are used to evaluate scheduler like
>> hackbench, pgbench but they generally fills all CPU in order to test
>> max performance. Are you looking for such kind of bench ?
>
> I'd rather see a bit different set of tests - something similar to
> "cyclic" tests for PREEMPT_RT patch.
>
> For sched work it would be welcome to spawn a lot of processes with
> different duration and workload. And on this basis observe if e.g. 2 or
> 3 processors are idle.

sanjay is working on something like that:
https://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/sanjayrawat/cyclicTest.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/master

>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> And if there are many small tasks we are
>> >> >> packing, then load must be high and so ondemand gov will
>> >> >> increase freq.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is of course true for "packing" all tasks to a single CPU.
>> >> > If we stay at the power consumption envelope, we can even
>> >> > overclock the frequency.
>> >> >
>> >> > But what if other - lets say 3 CPUs - are under heavy workload?
>> >> > Ondemand will switch frequency to maximum, and as Jonghwa pointed
>> >> > out this can cause dangerous temperature increase.
>> >>
>> >> IIUC, your main concern is to stay in a power consumption budget to
>> >> not over heat and have to face the side effect of high temperature
>> >> like a decrease of power efficiency. So your governor modifies the
>> >> max frequency based on the number of running/idle CPU
>> > Yes, this is correct.
>> >
>> >> to have an
>> >> almost stable power consumtpion ?
>> >
>> > From our observation it seems, that for 3 or 4 running CPUs under
>> > heavy load we see much more power consumption reduction.
>>
>> That's logic because you will reduce the voltage
>>
>> >
>> > To put it in another way - ondemand would increase frequency to max
>> > for all 4 CPUs. On the other hand, if user experience drops to the
>> > acceptable level we can reduce power consumption.
>> >
>> > Reducing frequency and CPU voltage (by DVS) causes as a side effect,
>> > that temperature stays at acceptable level.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Have you also looked at the power clamp driver that have similar
>> >> target ?
>> >
>> > I might be wrong here, but in my opinion the power clamp driver is
>> > a bit different:
>>
>> yes, it periodically forces the cluster in a low power state
>>
>> >
>> > 1. It is dedicated to Intel SoCs, which provide special set of
>> > registers (i.e. MSR_PKG_Cx_RESIDENCY [*]), which forces a processor
>> > to enter certain C state for a given duration. Idle duration is
>> > calculated by per CPU set of high priority kthreads (which also
>> > program [*] registers).
>>
>> IIRC, a trial on ARM platform have been done by lorenzo and daniel.
>> Lorenzo, Daniel, have you more information ?
>
> More information would be welcome :-)
>
>>
>> >
>> > 2. ARM SoCs don't have such infrastructure, so we depend on SW here.
>> > Scheduler has to remove tasks from a particular CPU and "execute" on
>> > it the idle_task.
>> > Moreover at Exynos4 thermal control loop depends on SW, since we can
>> > only read SoC temperature via TMU (Thermal Management Unit) block.
>>
>> The idle duration is quite small and should not perturb normal
>> behavior
>
> What do you mean by "small idle duration"? You think about exact time
> needed to enter idle state (ARM's WFI) or the time in which CPU is idle.

The time in which CPUs are idle

Vincent

>
>>
>> Vincent
>> >
>> >
>> > Correct me again, but it seems to me that on ARM we can use CPU
>> > hotplug (which as Tomas Glexner stated recently is going to be
>> > "refactored" :-) ) or "ask" scheduler to use smallest possible
>> > number of CPUs and enter C state for idling CPUs.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Vincent
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Contrary, when all cores are heavily loaded, we decided to
>> >> >> > reduce frequency by around 30%. With this approach user
>> >> >> > experience recution is still acceptable (with much less power
>> >> >> > consumption).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Don't know.. running many cpus at lower freq for long duration
>> >> >> will probably take more power than running them at high freq
>> >> >> for short duration and making system idle again.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > We have posted this "RFC" patch mainly for discussion, and I
>> >> >> > think it fits its purpose :-).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yes, no issues with your RFC idea.. its perfect..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> @Vincent: Can you please follow this thread a bit and tell us
>> >> >> what your views are?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> viresh
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Best regards,
>> >> >
>> >> > Lukasz Majewski
>> >> >
>> >> > Samsung R&D Poland (SRPOL) | Linux Platform Group
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Lukasz Majewski
>> >
>> > Samsung R&D Poland (SRPOL) | Linux Platform Group
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Lukasz Majewski
>
> Samsung R&D Poland (SRPOL) | Linux Platform Group
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