linux-kernel - Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review)

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Message-ID: <1373999229.2148.87.camel@dabdike>
Date:	Tue, 16 Jul 2013 22:27:09 +0400
From:	James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@...senPartnership.com>
To:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	ksummit-2013-discuss@...ts.linuxfoundation.org,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [
 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review)

On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org> wrote:
> >
> > Can we please make this into a Kernel Summit discussion. I highly doubt
> > we would solve anything, but it certainly would be a fun segment to
> > watch :-)
> 
> I think we should, because I think it's the kind of thing we really
> need at the KS - talking about "process".

Can you formulate the process issue to discuss?  I've heard "Linus needs
to yell less at people" and "the mailing lists need to be more
'professional'" neither of which seems to identify an actual process.
Are we perhaps discussing guidelines for giving feedback on patches?

> At the same time, I really don't know what the format would possibly
> be like for it to really work as a reasonable discussion. And I think
> that is important, because this kind of subject is *not* likely
> possible in the traditional "people sit around tables and maybe
> somebody has a few slides" format.

> A small panel discussion with a few people (fiveish?) that have very
> different viewpoints, along with baskets of rotten fruit set out on
> the tables? That could be fun. And I'm serious, although we might want
> to limit the size of the fruit to smaller berries ;)

How about Lychees?  They're prickly on the outside, very wet on the
inside and have large stones ...

But what are the viewpoints?  "maintainers need to yell more"?
"maintainers need to yell less"?  I don't think I agree with either.
I'm perfectly happy to run linux-scsi along reasonable standards of
civility and try to keep the debates technical, but that's far easier to
do on a low traffic list; obviously, I realise that style of argument
doesn't suit everyone, so it's not a standard of behaviour I'd like to
see universally imposed.  In fact, I've got to say that I wouldn't like
to see *any* behaviour standard imposed ... they're all basically cover
for power plays (or soon get abused as power plays); the only real way
to display leadership on behaviour standards is by example not by fiat.

James

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