linux-kernel - Re: [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review)

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20130716223957.GJ4994@xanatos>
Date:	Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:39:57 -0700
From:	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com>
To:	Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>
Cc:	Olivier Galibert <galibert@...ox.com>, David Lang <david@...g.hm>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Guenter Roeck <linux@...ck-us.net>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Dave Jones <davej@...hat.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	ksummit-2013-discuss@...ts.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review)

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:18:21AM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:12:35PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> > I *hate* both direct personal insults and indirect personal insults.
> > Neither should be acceptable in our community.
> > 
> > As I stated in an email to Rusty, what I'm objecting to here is not
> > kernel developers criticizing code.  I'm objecting to personal attacks,
> > and developers directing personal verbal abuse towards each other.  This
> > include all developers, not just Linus.
> 
> Well, there are people like me who don't mind getting personally
> insulted but who are really pained when their work is criticized.
> 
> You'd rather tell me I'm a fucking moron than all what I carefully
> designed, wrote and tested is pure crap. Probably that part of the
> reason is that I'm as I am and I'm not really responsible for this,
> so I don't care. Call me ugly if you want, why should I bother ? But
> if you tell me I did some crap, it's entirely my fault and that hurts
> a lot more.

I think we come from different perspectives here.  I can change my code.
Therefore, I don't mind my code being insulted.  I cannot change myself.
Therefore, I don't want to read verbal abuse directed at me personally.

Things get blurred when we're talking about something a person did.
I can change how I act as a maintainer.  Therefore, tell me politely
what I did wrong, and I will change it.

> So you want criticism to change focus for good, but it will not
> necessarily achieve the result you're expecting. Maybe we can lose
> more talented people by telling them their work is pure crap because
> we did not understand it than telling them they're stupid and let
> them argument their choices. At least I don't claim to know which
> one is better, all I can say is that what we have right now works
> well enough in my opinion.

We can tell them their code is bad without calling it crap.  Cussing
them out is just a lazy shortcut.

Sarah Sharp
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/