linux-kernel - Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

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Message-ID: <20130717131051.GD24293@1wt.eu>
Date:	Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:10:51 +0200
From:	Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>
To:	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>
Cc:	Ricardo Ferreira <rikajff@...il.com>,
	Jeff Liu <jeff.liu@...cle.com>,
	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com>,
	David Lang <david@...g.hm>,
	ksummit-2013-discuss@...ts.linuxfoundation.org,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	Olivier Galibert <galibert@...ox.com>,
	stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 09:03:35AM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 13:30 +0100, Ricardo Ferreira wrote:
> > Slashdot is just a cesspool of trolls, not a good comparison.
> 
> Point taken.
> 
> I posted this privately, and I think I'll repost it here. I need to
> modify it a bit as it wasn't meant to be public.
> 
> 
> When I started sending patches to LKML it was not the cursing I was
> afraid of, it was the possibility of top notch developers pointing out
> my flaws. Linux is intimidating not because it can be harsh, but because
> its the big league. You are posting code not only to the world but also
> to some of the best programmers on the planet, and frankly, that's
> really scary. And I think that's the real reason people who are shy tend
> not to want to participate. They use the harshness of LKML as an excuse,
> but I think it's really that they may be insecure about their own work
> and how it will compare with the best of the best.
> 
> Both my wife and I have done karate for decades. My wife has even won a
> national tournament. She can do demos without a problem, but when she
> has to get up in front of other top black belts, she's a nervous wreck.
> She's her biggest critic, but she tends to know that when performing in
> front of people as good as she is, or better, they can see her flaws as
> much as she can. That is intimidating.
> 
> The point I'm making is that we need to find out what is preventing good
> developers from joining the Linux community. Is it really the harshness
> of the project, or is it because we expect you to have the best code,
> and you will not be accepted if you are not that good. And I do not want
> people joining that are not good programmers.
> 
> The answer is not to bash Linus into being a nice guy (which seems to be
> what Sarah's trying to do), but we can get mentors or even "scouts" to
> look for people of talent and help them get into the community. What
> those people need is not a nicer LKML that will let mediocre developers
> in, but someone that recognizes their talent and encourages them to
> join, by reinforcing to them how good of a developer they are. I've
> helped people this way. Talented programmers that were unsure of
> themselves, and they have done extremely well in our community.

+1

Willy

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