linux-kernel - Re: [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

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Message-ID: <CAMP44s0rPF-ERDiGWkB4Ph9t=7ws7Q63g6Oe5h4WTdkNrnQsKw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:27:57 -0500
From:	Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@...il.com>
To:	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com>
Cc:	Casey Schaufler <casey@...aufler-ca.com>, Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>,
	Olivier Galibert <galibert@...ox.com>,
	David Lang <david@...g.hm>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Guenter Roeck <linux@...ck-us.net>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Dave Jones <davej@...hat.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	ksummit-2013-discuss@...ts.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Sarah Sharp
<sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com> wrote:

> I've provided examples and personal stories in an attempt to give
> incentive to change.

Those are just stories; things that happened. What you need to provide
is *evidence* that if the community changes, things will be better,
and unless you have a study of series of collaborative groups like the
Linux kernel, that demonstrates that suppressing swearing has a
positive effect in the community, I'd say all you have is an
*opinion*.

> I cannot force on anyone the will to change, nor
> would I want to.  I cannot "manage" change in others.  I can only
> politely point out that the current community behavior does hurt other
> people, and keep people from contributing.

Which people have been hurt? Mauro? I would like to hear that from
him. Another recipient of your stories was Rafael, and he already said
he didn't feel personally attacked. I have also been a recipient of
Linus' cursing, and I don't see any reason to change.

But the more important question is; was the cursing justified? In the
case of Mauro, it most definitely was, because as Linus mentioned; he
broke the #1 rule of Linux, and that can't be tolerated from a
lieutenant.

So no, your stories don't prove that any people were hurt, justified
or not. But even that is not important, what is important is; was the
*project* hurt? I'd say you would need more than a couple of stories
to prove that.

> I'm not demanding change.  I'm merely asking to discuss the possibly of
> change at KS.

Everything is possible, the question is not "*can* it change", the
question is "*should* it change". And again, you need evidence to show
that it should.

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras
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