linux-kernel - Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

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Date:	Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:09:31 -0400
From:	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>
To:	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com>
Cc:	CAI Qian <caiqian@...hat.com>, David Lang <david@...g.hm>,
	ksummit-2013-discuss@...ts.linuxfoundation.org,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	Olivier Galibert <galibert@...ox.com>,
	stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 07:48 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:

> > Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin
> > new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux community? Maybe
> > just need a better pipeline for people comfortable for this culture?
> 
> No, we don't need a better pipeline for people who can "put up with
> shit".  We need a better pipeline for people who can work together
> civilly, and still get shit done.
> 
> I'm working on getting a pipeline of women into kernel development,
> through the FOSS Outreach Program for Women.  They slowly get introduced
> to Linux development culture, starting with a very friendly separate
> mailing list and IRC channel, and finally moving to work with a kernel
> mentor on a bigger project on the main Linux kernel development lists.
> We have seven women participating this round, and I suspect we'll have
> even more the next round.
> 
> So deal with it.  You're going to have a lot more women in the kernel
> community, and not all of them will be willing to put up with verbal
> abuse.  If you want to attract top talent that also happen to be women
> or racial minorities, the verbal abuse needs to stop.
> 

I have to ask. How much verbal abuse have you received in LKML? And I
don't mean in this thread.

You pointed out a few examples of Linus, and it usually comes from
someone that should know better being told not to do something, and they
continue to do it, and then finally Linus blows up. Linus doesn't start
his cursing at the first email. It takes a few to show that you deserve
a blow up.

Usually sensitive developers would listen the first time they are told.
It's more of the thick skin developers that push the envelope. But I
understand, its the "image" that bothers you.

The scariest thing about Linux kernel development is that because its so
successful, and the development is so open to the world (you are
programming on a stage in a world theater), that thin skin people may
not be comfortable in that environment. What we need are mentors, and
educate people that Linux really isn't that harsh, and that the new
developers actually do have talent, and shouldn't be afraid to post
their code.

The last thing I want to do is to lower the quality of the kernel just
to get a wider range of developers.

-- Steve

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