linux-kernel - Re: mistakes in code vs. maintainer flow mistakes (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review)

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Message-ID: <20130722105551.GB2098@gmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:55:51 +0200
From:	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>
To:	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com>
Cc:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Guenter Roeck <linux@...ck-us.net>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	Dave Jones <davej@...hat.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	Rusty Russell <rusty@...tcorp.com.au>
Subject: Re: mistakes in code vs. maintainer flow mistakes (was: [ 00/19]
 3.10.1-stable review)


* Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 11:22:56AM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > 
> > * Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:39:07PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > * Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
> > > > > <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh, FFS, I just called out on private email for "playing the victim
> > > > > > card".  I will repeat: this is not just about me, or other minorities.
> > > > > > I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the mailing lists.
> > > > > > Professional behavior should be the default.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > [...]
> > > > > 
> > > > > Because if you want me to "act professional", I can tell you that I'm 
> > > > > not interested. I'm sitting in my home office wearign a bathrobe. The 
> > > > > same way I'm not going to start wearing ties, I'm *also* not going to 
> > > > > buy into the fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and 
> > > > > backstabbing, the passive aggressiveness, and the buzzwords. Because 
> > > > > THAT is what "acting professionally" results in: people resort to all 
> > > > > kinds of really nasty things because they are forced to act out their 
> > > > > normal urges in unnatural ways.
> > > > 
> > > > Sarah, that's a pretty potent argument by Linus, that "acting 
> > > > professionally" risks replacing a raw but honest culture with a
> > > > polished but dishonest culture - which is harmful to developing
> > > > good technology.
> > > > 
> > > > That's a valid concern. What's your reply to that argument?
> > > 
> > > I don't feel the need to comment, because I feel it's a straw man 
> > > argument.  I feel that way because I disagree with the definition of 
> > > professionalism that people have been pushing.
> > 
> > I hope you won't take this as a sign of disrespect, but it's hard to keep 
> > up with your somewhat fluid opinion about what exactly you find 
> > objectionable :-/
> 
> The good news is you're confused because I've been influenced by some of 
> the arguments people have made on this thread.  As a result, my 
> viewpoints may have changed subtly, [...]

It's nice to see such flexiblity!

Thanks for the very detailed description of your opinion, it's a very 
constructive approach.

My opinion is flexible and subject to change as well - and I agree that 
this is better discussed at the KS.

Thanks,

	Ingo
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