Message-ID: <CALAqxLW_rjS_bbDXDrPrnBRLbegs9TVmPDnpNVYuoQjaVv3tPw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 6 Aug 2013 21:23:55 -0700
From:	John Stultz <john.stultz@...aro.org>
To:	Rob Clark <robdclark@...il.com>
Cc:	Tom Cooksey <tom.cooksey@....com>, linux-fbdev@...r.kernel.org,
	Pawel Moll <Pawel.Moll@....com>,
	lkml <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org, linaro-mm-sig@...ts.linaro.org,
	linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, linux-media@...r.kernel.org,
	Rebecca Schultz Zavin <rebecca@...roid.com>,
	Erik Gilling <konkers@...roid.com>,
	Ross Oldfield <ross.oldfield@...aro.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC 0/1] drm/pl111: Initial drm/kms driver for pl111

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:15 AM, Rob Clark <robdclark@...il.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Tom Cooksey <tom.cooksey@....com> wrote:
>>
>>> > So in some respects, there is a constraint on how buffers which will
>>> > be drawn to using the GPU are allocated. I don't really like the idea
>>> > of teaching the display controller DRM driver about the GPU buffer
>>> > constraints, even if they are fairly trivial like this. If the same
>>> > display HW IP is being used on several SoCs, it seems wrong somehow
>>> > to enforce those GPU constraints if some of those SoCs don't have a
>>> > GPU.
>>>
>>> Well, I suppose you could get min_pitch_alignment from devicetree, or
>>> something like this..
>>>
>>> In the end, the easy solution is just to make the display allocate to
>>> the worst-case pitch alignment.  In the early days of dma-buf
>>> discussions, we kicked around the idea of negotiating or
>>> programatically describing the constraints, but that didn't really
>>> seem like a bounded problem.
>>
>> Yeah - I was around for some of those discussions and agree it's not
>> really an easy problem to solve.
>>
>>
>>
>>> > We may also then have additional constraints when sharing buffers
>>> > between the display HW and video decode or even camera ISP HW.
>>> > Programmatically describing buffer allocation constraints is very
>>> > difficult and I'm not sure you can actually do it - there's some
>>> > pretty complex constraints out there! E.g. I believe there's a
>>> > platform where Y and UV planes of the reference frame need to be in
>>> > separate DRAM banks for real-time 1080p decode, or something like
>>> > that?
>>>
>>> yes, this was discussed.  This is different from pitch/format/size
>>> constraints.. it is really just a placement constraint (ie. where do
>>> the physical pages go).  IIRC the conclusion was to use a dummy
>>> devices with it's own CMA pool for attaching the Y vs UV buffers.
>>>
>>> > Anyway, I guess my point is that even if we solve how to allocate
>>> > buffers which will be shared between the GPU and display HW such that
>>> > both sets of constraints are satisfied, that may not be the end of
>>> > the story.
>>> >
>>>
>>> that was part of the reason to punt this problem to userspace ;-)
>>>
>>> In practice, the kernel drivers doesn't usually know too much about
>>> the dimensions/format/etc.. that is really userspace level knowledge.
>>> There are a few exceptions when the kernel needs to know how to setup
>>> GTT/etc for tiled buffers, but normally this sort of information is up
>>> at the next level up (userspace, and drm_framebuffer in case of
>>> scanout).  Userspace media frameworks like GStreamer already have a
>>> concept of format/caps negotiation.  For non-display<->gpu sharing, I
>>> think this is probably where this sort of constraint negotiation
>>> should be handled.
>>
>> I agree that user-space will know which devices will access the buffer
>> and thus can figure out at least a common pixel format. Though I'm not
>> so sure userspace can figure out more low-level details like alignment
>> and placement in physical memory, etc.
>
> well, let's divide things up into two categories:
>
> 1) the arrangement and format of pixels.. ie. what userspace would
> need to know if it mmap's a buffer.  This includes pixel format,
> stride, etc.  This should be negotiated in userspace, it would be
> crazy to try to do this in the kernel.
>
> 2) the physical placement of the pages.  Ie. whether it is contiguous
> or not.  Which bank the pages in the buffer are placed in, etc.  This
> is not visible to userspace.  This is the purpose of the attach step,
> so you know all the devices involved in sharing up front before
> allocating the backing pages.  (Or in the worst case, if you have a
> "late attacher" you at least know when no device is doing dma access
> to a buffer and can reallocate and move the buffer.)  A long time

One concern I know the Android folks have expressed previously (and
correct me if its no longer an objection), is that this attach time
in-kernel constraint solving / moving or reallocating buffers is
likely to hurt determinism.  If I understood, their perspective was
that userland knows the device path the buffers will travel through,
so why not leverage that knowledge, rather then having the kernel have
to sort it out for itself after the fact.

The concern about determinism even makes them hesitant about CMA, over
things like carveout, as they don't want to be moving pages around at
allocation time (which could hurt reasonable use cases like the time
it takes to launch a camera app - which is quite important). Though
maybe this concern will lessen as more CMA solutions ship.

I worry some of this split between fully general solutions vs
hard-coded known constraints is somewhat intractable. But what might
make it easier to get android folks interested in approaches like the
attach-time allocation / relocating on late-attach you're proposing is
if there is maybe some way, as you suggested, to hint the allocation
when they do know the device paths, so they can provide that insight
and can avoid *all* reallocations.

Then of course, there's the question of how to consistently hint
things for all the different driver allocation interfaces (and that,
maybe naively, leads to the central allocator approach).

thanks
-john
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