Message-ID: <CALCETrU-CWuefE5XUpC=xFuCXaL56Cox95nL35Bm9jMi_B+6_A@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 6 Aug 2013 17:26:03 -0700
From:	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>
To:	Tom Gundersen <teg@...m.no>
Cc:	Bryan Kadzban <bryan@...zban.is-a-geek.net>,
	systemd Mailing List <systemd-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org>,
	Linux Wireless List <linux-wireless@...r.kernel.org>,
	Johannes Berg <johannes@...solutions.net>,
	Intel Linux Wireless <ilw@...ux.intel.com>,
	linux-hotplug@...r.kernel.org,
	Maarten Lankhorst <m.b.lankhorst@...il.com>,
	Kay Sievers <kay@...y.org>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to
 default n and don't select it

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@...m.no> wrote:
>
> On 6 Aug 2013 18:32, "Bryan Kadzban" <bryan@...zban.is-a-geek.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 11:17:17AM +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote:
>> > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Tom Gundersen <teg@...m.no> wrote:
>> > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Maarten Lankhorst
>> > > <m.b.lankhorst@...il.com> wrote:
>> > >> Op 05-08-13 18:29, Andy Lutomirski schreef:
>> > >>> The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple
>> > >>> minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y.  Unfortunately no one
>> > >>> noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well
>> > >>> as old kernels.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace
>> > >>> support, turn this thing off by default.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a
>> > >>> Author: Tom Gundersen <teg@...m.no>
>> > >>> Date:   Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100
>> > >>>
>> > >>>     udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default
>> > >>>
>> > >>>     Distros that whish to support old kernels should set
>> > >>>
>> > >>> --with-firmware-dirs="/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware"
>> > >>>     to retain the old behaviour.
>> > >>>
>> > >> methinks this patch should be reverted then,
>> > >
>> > > Well, all the code is still there, so it can be enabled if anyone
>> > > wants it.
>> > >
>> > >> or a stub should be added to udev to always fail firmware loading so
>> > >> timeouts don't occur.
>> > >
>> > > I think the only use (if any) of a userspace firmware loader would be
>> > > for anyone who wants a custom one (i.e., not udev), so we shouldn't
>> > > just fail the loading from udev unconditionally.
>> > >
>> > > How about we just improve the udev documentation a bit, similar to
>> > > Andy's kernel patch?
>> >
>> > Sorry, I should first have checked. We already document this in the
>> > README:
>> >
>> > >        Userspace firmware loading is deprecated, will go away, and
>> > >        sometimes causes problems:
>> > >          CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=n
>>
>> ...And this patch is making the kernel default to the correct behavior,
>> instead of the now-broken-by-udev behavior.
>>
>> I'm not sure I see the issue with it?  :-)
>
> Oh yeah this patch is totally the right thing to do, I was just arguing that
> there is nothing to be done on the udev side.
>
>> (Add me to the list of people that think udev is broken too, fwiw.  But
>> let's at least not leave *both* sides in a broken-by-default state.)
>
> Well I don't think it is too much to ask that the kernel and udev should be
> configured in a consistent way. Especially as thing still work even if you
> get it wrong, albeit with a delay.

Except that the current defaults are inconsistent and there is no
explanation anywhere in the logs when this is screwed up.

--Andy
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