linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 00/12] One more attempt at useful kernel lockdown

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Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1309101217150.10412@nftneq.ynat.uz>
Date:	Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:17:57 -0700 (PDT)
From:	David Lang <david@...g.hm>
To:	Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>
cc:	"gregkh@...uxfoundation.org" <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>,
	Matthew Garrett <matthew.garrett@...ula.com>,
	Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@....eng.br>,
	"Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu" <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-efi@...r.kernel.org" <linux-efi@...r.kernel.org>,
	"jmorris@...ei.org" <jmorris@...ei.org>,
	"linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org" 
	<linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/12] One more attempt at useful kernel lockdown

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013, Kees Cook wrote:

> Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/12] One more attempt at useful kernel lockdown
> 
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:51 AM, gregkh@...uxfoundation.org
> <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:29:45AM -0700, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
>>> On 09/10/2013 11:26 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2013-09-10 at 14:23 -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 10 Sep 2013, Matthew Garrett wrote:
>>>>>> That's why modern systems require signed firmware updates.
>>>>>
>>>>> Linux doesn't.  Is someone working on adding signature support to the
>>>>> runtime firmware loader?
>>>>
>>>> It'd be simple to do so, but so far the model appears to be that devices
>>>> that expect signed firmware enforce that themselves.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most devices do absolutely no verification on the firmware, and simply
>>> trust the driver.
>>>
>>> So signing firmware is probably critical.
>>
>> How are you going to "validate" that the firmware is correct, given
>> that it's just a "blob" living in the linux-firmware tree.  If you sign
>> it, what is that saying?
>
> In theory these blobs are traceable to a manufacturer. It's not really
> an indication that it's "safe" more than it's an indication that it
> hasn't been changed. But I haven't chased this very hard yet because
> of below...

well, not if you are trying to defend against root breaking in to the machine.

David Lang
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