Message-ID: <52728945.9070508@gmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 31 Oct 2013 10:45:57 -0600
From:	David Ahern <dsahern@...il.com>
To:	Masami Hiramatsu <masami.hiramatsu.pt@...achi.com>
CC:	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
	Gleb Natapov <gleb@...hat.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, KVM <kvm@...r.kernel.org>,
	yoshihiro.yunomae.ez@...achi.com,
	"yrl.pp-manager.tt@...achi.com" <yrl.pp-manager.tt@...achi.com>
Subject: Re: RFC: paravirtualizing perf_clock

On 10/31/13, 2:09 AM, Masami Hiramatsu wrote:
> (2013/10/30 23:03), David Ahern wrote:
>> On 10/29/13 11:59 PM, Masami Hiramatsu wrote:
>>> (2013/10/29 11:58), David Ahern wrote:
>>>> To back out a bit, my end goal is to be able to create and merge
>>>> perf-events from any context on a KVM-based host -- guest userspace,
>>>> guest kernel space, host userspace and host kernel space (userspace
>>>> events with a perf-clock timestamp is another topic ;-)).
>>>
>>> That is almost same as what we(Yoshihiro and I) are trying on integrated
>>> tracing, we are doing it on ftrace and trace-cmd (but perhaps, it eventually
>>> works on perf-ftrace).
>>
>> I thought at this point (well, once perf-ftrace gets committed) that you
>> can do everything with perf. What feature is missing in perf that you
>> get with trace-cmd or using debugfs directly?
>
> The perftools interface is the best for profiling a process or in a short period.
> However, what we'd like to do is monitoring or tracing in background a long
> period on the memory, while the system life cycle, as a flight recorder.
> This kind of tracing interface is required for mission-critical system for
> trouble shooting.

right. I have a perf-based scheduling daemon that runs in a flight 
recorder mode - retain the last N-seconds of scheduling data. 
Challenging mostly to handle memory growth with task-based records 
(MMAP, FORK, EXIT, COMM). Other events are handled fairly well.


> Also, on-the-fly configurability of ftrace such as snapshot, multi-buffer,
> event-adding/removing are very useful, since in the flight-recorder
> use-case, we can't stop tracing for even a moment.

interesting.

> Moreover, our guest/host integrated tracer can pass event buffers from
> guest to host with very small overhead, because it uses ftrace ringbuffer
> and virtio-serial with splice (so, zero page copying in the guest).
> Note that we need low overhead tracing as small as possible because it
> is running always in background.

Right. Been meaning to look at what you guys have done, just have not 
had the time.

> That's why we're using ftrace for our purpose. But anyway, the time
> synchronization is common issue. Let's share the solution :)

Yes, that was one of the key takeaways from the Tracing Summit is the 
need to have a common time-source - just extending it to VMs as well.

>>>> And then for the cherry on top a design that works across architectures
>>>> (e.g., x86 now, but arm later).
>>>
>>> I think your proposal is good for the default implementation, it doesn't
>>> depends on the arch specific feature. However, since physical timer(clock)
>>> interfaces and virtualization interfaces strongly depends on the arch,
>>> I guess the optimized implementations will become different on each arch.
>>> For example, maybe we can export tsc-offset to the guest to adjust clock
>>> on x86, but not on ARM, or other devices. In that case, until implementing
>>> optimized one, we can use paravirt perf_clock.
>>
>> So this MSR read takes about 1.6usecs (from 'perf stat kvm live') and
>> that is total time between VMEXIT and VMENTRY. The time it takes to run
>> perf_clock in the host should be a very small part of that 1.6 usec.
>
> Yeah, a hypercall is always heavy operation. So that is not the best
> solution, we need a optimized one for each arch.
>
>> I'll take a look at the TSC path to see how it is optimized (suggestions
>> appreciated).
>
> At least on the machine which has stable tsc, we can relay on that.
> We just need the tsc-offset to adjust it in the guest. Note that this
> offset can change if the guest sleeps/resumes or does a live-migration.
> Each time we need to refresh the tsc-offset.
>
>> Another thought is to make the use of pv_perf_clock an option -- user
>> can knowingly decide the additional latency/overhead is worth the feature.
>
> Yeah. BTW, would you see the paravirt_sched_clock(pv_time_ops)?
> It seems that such synchronized clock is there.

I have poked around with it a bit.

David
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