Message-ID: <20140108125528.GC14741@redhat.com>
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:55:28 +0200
From:	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
To:	Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
Cc:	John Fastabend <john.r.fastabend@...el.com>,
	John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
	Neil Horman <nhorman@...driver.com>, davem@...emloft.net,
	netdev@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Vlad Yasevich <vyasevic@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net 1/2] macvlan: forbid L2 fowarding offload for macvtap

On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 05:00:29PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> On 01/07/2014 03:26 PM, John Fastabend wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >>>> Unfortunately not. This commit has a side effect that it in fact
> >>>> disables the multiqueue macvtap transmission. Since all macvtap queues
> >>>> will contend on a single qdisc lock.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> They will only contend on a single qdisc lock if the lower device has
> >>> 1 queue.
> >>
> >> I think we are talking about 6acf54f1cf0a6747bac9fea26f34cfc5a9029523.
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >>
> >> The qdisc or txq lock were macvlan device itself since dev_queue_xmit()
> >> was called for macvlan device itself. So even if lower device has
> >> multiple txqs, if you just create a one queue macvlan device, you will
> >> get lock contention on macvlan device. And even if you explicitly
> >> specifying the txq numbers ( though I don't believe most management
> >> software will do this) when creating the macvlan/macvtap device, you
> >> must also configure the XPS for macvlan to make sure it has the
> >> possibility of using multiple transmit queues.
> >>
> >
> > OK I think I'm finally putting all the pieces together thanks.
> >
> > Do you know why macvtap is setting dev->tx_queue_len by default? If you
> > zero this then the noqueue_qdisc is used and the q->enqueue check in
> > dev_queue_xmit will fail.
> 
> It was introduced in commit 8a35747a5d13b99e076b0222729e0caa48cb69b6
> ("macvtap: Limit packet queue length") to limit the length of socket
> receive queue of macvtap. But I'm not sure whether the qdisc is a
> byproduct of this commit, maybe we can switch to use another name
> instead of just reuse dev->tx_queue_length.

You mean tx_queue_len really, right?

Problem is tx_queue_len can be accessed using netlink sysfs or ioctl,
so if someone uses these to control or check the # of packets that
can be queued by device, this will break.

How about adding ndo_set_tx_queue_len then?

At some point we wanted to decouple queue length from tx_queue_length
for tun as well, so that would be benefitial there as well.


> >
> > Also if XPS is not configured then skb_tx_hash is used so multiple
> > transmit queues will still be used.
> >
> 
> True.
> >>> Perhaps defaulting the L2 forwarding devices to 1queue was a
> >>> mistake. But the same issue arises when running macvtap over a
> >>> non-multiqueue nic. Or even if you have a multiqueue device and create
> >>> many more macvtap queues than the lower device has queues.
> >>>
> >>> Shouldn't the macvtap configuration take into account the lowest level
> >>> devices queues?
> >>
> >> See commit 8ffab51b3dfc54876f145f15b351c41f3f703195 ("macvlan: lockless
> >> tx path"). It allows the management to create a device without worrying
> >> the underlying device.
> >
> > OK.
> >
> >>> How does using the L2 forwarding device change the
> >>> contention issues? Without the L2 forwarding LLTX is enabled but the
> >>> qdisc lock, etc is still acquired on the device below the macvlan.
> >>>
> >>
> >> That's the point. We need make sure the txq selection and qdisc lock
> >> were done for the lower device not for the macvlan device itself. Then
> >> macvlan can automatically benefit from the multi-queue capable lower
> >> devices. But L2 forwarding needs to contend on the txq lock on macvlan
> >> device itself, which is unnecessary and can complex the management.
> >
> > If I make the l2 forwarding defaults a bit better then using the L2
> > forwarding case should not be any more complex. And because the queues
> > are dedicated to the macvtap device any contention from qdisc lock, etc
> > comes from the upper device only. 
> 
> At very least the txq of lower device should be held in order to be
> synchronized with management path. Consider txq lock were often held by
> netif_tx_disable() before trying to down the card. Current cold does not
> hold txq lock, so it loses the synchronization which may cause issues.
> And the code also does not check whether the txq has been stopped before
> trying to start the transmission.
> 
> 
> > Also if I get the bandwidth controls
> > in we can set the max/min bandwidth per macvtap device this way. That
> > is future work though.
> >
> 
> That will be a nice feature.
> >>> The ixgbe driver as it is currently written can be configured for up to
> >>> 4 queues by setting numtxqueues when the device is created. I assume
> >>> when creating macvtap queues the user needs to account for the number
> >>> of queues supported by the lower device.
> >>>
> >>
> >> We'd better not complicate the task of management, lockless tx path work
> >> very well so we can just keep it. Btw, there's no way for the user to
> >> know the maximum number of queues that L2 forwarding supports.
> >
> > Good point I'll add an attribute to query it.
> >
> >>>> For L2 forwarding offload itself, more issues need to be addressed for
> >>>> multiqueue macvtap:
> >>>>
> >>>> - ndo_dfwd_add_station() can only create queues per device at
> >>>> ndo_open,
> >>>> but multiqueue macvtap allows user to create and destroy queues at
> >>>> their
> >>>> will and at any time.
> >>>
> >>> same argument as above, isn't this the same when running macvtap
> >>> without
> >>> the l2 offloads over a real device? I expect you hit the same
> >>> contention
> >>> points when running over a real device.
> >>
> >> Not true and not only for contention.
> >>
> >> Macvtap allows user to create or destroy a queue by simply open or close
> >> to character device /dev/tapX. But currently, we do nothing when a new
> >> queue was created or destroyed for L2 forwarding offload.
> >>
> >> For contention, lockless tx path make the contention only happens for
> >> the txq or qdisc for the lower device, but L2 forwarding offload make
> >> contention also happen for the macvlan device itself.
> >
> > Right, but there will be less contention there because those queues
> > are a dedicated resource for the upper device.
> 
> Yes and this is also true if we only do synchronization on the lower
> device since only dedicated queues could be selected.
> >
> > At this point I think I need to put together a real testbed and
> > benchmark some of this with netperf and perf running to get real
> > numbers. When I originally did the l2 forwarding I did not do any
> > testing with multiple macvtap queues and only very limited work with
> > macvtap.
> >
> 
> As I said above, holding the txq lock of lower device seems a must and
> we should not get regression if NETIF_F_LLTX is kept. But I agree we
> need some test.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> - it looks that ixgbe has a upper limit of 4 queues per station, but
> >>>> macvtap currently allows up to 16 queues per device.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> The 4 limit was to simplify the code because the queue mapping in the
> >>> driver gets complicated if it is greater than 4. We can probably
> >>> increase this latter. But sorry reiterating how is this different than
> >>> a macvtap on a real device that supports a max of 4 queues?
> >>
> >> Well, it maybe easy. I just point out possible issues we may meet
> >> currently.
> >
> > Right.
> >
> >>>
> >>>> So more works need to be done and unless those above 3 issues were
> >>>> addressed, this patch is really needed to make sure macvtap works.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Agreed there is a lot more work here to improve things I'm just not
> >>> sure we need to disable this now. Also note its the l2 forwarding
> >>> should be disabled by default so a user would have to enable the
> >>> feature flag.
> >>
> >> Even if it was disabled by default. We should not surprise the user who
> >> want to enable it for macvtap.
> >
> > So the question is what to do in net while we improve net-next. Either
> > we fix the crash from the null txq and note that with l2 forwarding
> > some non default configuration is needed for optimal performance OR
> > for now disable it as your patch does. I would prefer to fix the crash
> > and note the configuration but I see your point about surprising users
> > so could go either way.
> >
> 
> It's much safer to disable l2 forwarding offload for macvtap temporarily
> consider it has several issues.We can re-enable it when everything is
> ready in net-next. We we really need to hold the txq lock of lower
> device,  only add more check of NULL pointer is not sufficient. So
> explicitly select a txq is still needed. And I don't see any conflicts
> between this and future enhancement.
> 
> Also I don't see any drawback of using NETIF_F_LLTX for l2 forwarding.
> So we'd better keep it.
> > Neil any thoughts?
> >
> > To fix the null txq in the gso case adding a check for a non-null
> > txq before calling txq_trans_update() makes sense to me. We already
> > have the check in the non-gso case so making it symmetric fixes it.
> >
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >
> > -- 
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