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Date:	Fri, 14 Feb 2014 05:19:01 -0800 (PST)
From:	ChaosEsque Team <>
Subject: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?

Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them.
Where's linus in all of this?

The systemd fans ban anyone who say f__k-that to systemd.

What can we do?
Can we fork debian? (Why do we have to...)
Why do 4 people get to decide to send thousands and thousands of people into the systemd waters?
This is not fair.

This is not-pro choice. And YES, linux, and especially debian IS about choice.
No matter what redhat and lennart fans say.

Is there any way to kick the systemd fans out of debian development before
they kick out all the alternative init systems?

They have stated many times that they want the sys-v scripts to become
unmaintained and to be removed. They need to be kicked the hell out 
of debian before they make their change unrecoverable.

Everyone knows that the systemd crap is armtwisting and trys to
pull everyone and everything along with it. We wouldn't be having
these discussions if that were not so.

Our simple desire to continue using what we know is derided by systemd fans,
even alternative kernels like kFreeBSD are suggested to be removed by systemd 
fans for the benifit of systemd.

They basically say "hahhahah we will make sure sys-v is unusable in the future,
hahhahhaha systemd wins". It is a competition to them, and there must
be winners and losers.

4 people should not be able to control the distro that thousands develop for and
use. Nor should 500 people either. We should have choice, but the systemd
people will not allow it. They constantly argue and berate others who prefer
something other than systemd, they constantanly point out the systemd
way to do whatever, they are constantly evangelizing systemd.

Not using systemd is never an option to them, unless you leave debain 
and or use a non-linux operating system.

There has to be some way out of this. There has to be some way to
fight them. To retain choice, to oppose bloat, atleast on our own systems.

We should not be forced or moved to leave debain by these new systemd
people. We should not accept being told "if you don't like systemd, do
everything yourself, sucker"

The sys-v scripts are their, they work, when a systemd fan tells us
they will be removed, or cease working (they're made of wood remember)
that systemd fan should be removed from debian development for 
a time.

Fire needs to be fought with fire.
The systemd people ban those who speak against sytemd
in anything they control (chat server, forums, lists)
They deride all users of other systems.
They proclaim constanty the death of every other init system.
They tell us that our scripts will break and be unsupported.
They are triumphalist against us.

A simple, clean, unixlike option needs to be maintained.
In debian. In linux.
It exists today. The systemd people should not be 
permitted to tear it down. They should not be allowed
to take away what we have and replace it in whole cloth
with their new order of things.

>(An aside:)
>(Lennart at some point announced that udev will no longer work without systemd.
>He is such a scumbag.
>Linus told him specifically not to do this.
>Lennart thinks he is a god and is dragging us all with him.)

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