linux-kernel - Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/5] arch: atomic rework

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Message-ID: <CA+55aFwUnRVk6q3VZeYjWfduoHcExW=Pht6jgp=4bBSaLHNPMA@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:18:21 -0800
From:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
To:	Torvald Riegel <triegel@...hat.com>
Cc:	Paul McKenney <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@....com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
	Ramana Radhakrishnan <Ramana.Radhakrishnan@....com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>,
	"linux-arch@...r.kernel.org" <linux-arch@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"akpm@...ux-foundation.org" <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	"mingo@...nel.org" <mingo@...nel.org>,
	"gcc@....gnu.org" <gcc@....gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/5] arch: atomic rework

On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Torvald Riegel <triegel@...hat.com> wrote:
>
> Which example do you have in mind here?  Haven't we resolved all the
> debated examples, or did I miss any?

Well, Paul seems to still think that the standard possibly allows
speculative writes or possibly value speculation in ways that break
the hardware-guaranteed orderings.

And personally, I can't read standards paperwork. It is invariably
written in some basically impossible-to-understand lawyeristic mode,
and then it is read by people (compiler writers) that intentionally
try to mis-use the words and do language-lawyering ("that depends on
what the meaning of 'is' is"). The whole "lvalue vs rvalue expression
vs 'what is a volatile access'" thing for C++ was/is a great example
of that.

So quite frankly, as a result I refuse to have anything to do with the
process directly.

                 Linus
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