linux-kernel - Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/5] arch: atomic rework

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:	Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:47:45 -0800
From:	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:	Peter.Sewell@...cam.ac.uk,
	"mark.batty@...cam.ac.uk" <Mark.Batty@...cam.ac.uk>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
	Torvald Riegel <triegel@...hat.com>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@....com>,
	Ramana Radhakrishnan <Ramana.Radhakrishnan@....com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>,
	"linux-arch@...r.kernel.org" <linux-arch@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	"gcc@....gnu.org" <gcc@....gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/5] arch: atomic rework

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:49:27AM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Peter Sewell
> <Peter.Sewell@...cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > This is a bit more subtle, because (on ARM and POWER) removing the
> > dependency and conditional branch is actually in general *not* equivalent
> > in the hardware, in a concurrent context.
> 
> So I agree, but I think that's a generic issue with non-local memory
> ordering, and is not at all specific to the optimization wrt that
> "x?42:42" expression.
> 
> If you have a value that you loaded with a non-relaxed load, and you
> pass that value off to a non-local function that you don't know what
> it does, in my opinion that implies that the compiler had better add
> the necessary serialization to say "whatever that other function does,
> we guarantee the semantics of the load".
> 
> So on ppc, if you do a load with "consume" or "acquire" and then call
> another function without having had something in the caller that
> serializes the load, you'd better add the lwsync or whatever before
> the call. Exactly because the function call itself otherwise basically
> breaks the visibility into ordering. You've basically turned a
> load-with-ordering-guarantees into just an integer that you passed off
> to something that doesn't know about the ordering guarantees - and you
> need that "lwsync" in order to still guarantee the ordering.
> 
> Tough titties. That's what a CPU with weak memory ordering semantics
> gets in order to have sufficient memory ordering.

And that is in fact what C11 compilers are supposed to do if the function
doesn't have the [[carries_dependency]] attribute on the corresponding
argument or return of the non-local function.  If the function is marked
with [[carries_dependency]], then the compiler has the information needed
in both compilations to make things work correctly.

							Thanx, Paul

> And I don't think it's actually a problem in practice. If you are
> doing loads with ordered semantics, you're not going to pass the
> result off willy-nilly to random functions (or you really *do* require
> the ordering, because the load that did the "acquire" was actually for
> a lock!
> 
> So I really think that the "local optimization" is correct regardless.
> 
>                    Linus
> 

--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/