linux-kernel - Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems

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Message-Id: <20140302051229.52A7763B@m0005310.ppops.net>
Date:	Sun, 2 Mar 2014 05:12:29 -0800
From:	"NoTo CTTE" <usspookslovesystmd@...homail.com>
To:	<debian-vote@...ts.debian.org>
Cc:	<debian-project@...ts.debian.org>, <debian-ctte@...ts.debian.org>,
	<stuart@...ian.org>, <kurt@...ckx.be>,
	<jackson@...ark.greenend.org.uk>, <matthew@...ian.org>,
	<aba@...us.org>, <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems

He has a right to call a GR.
You are trying your hardest to make sure systemd is the
only choice for all linux systems, all major linux distros,
and if we don't like it we can "go use MacOSX or BSD" or
"roll your own distro".

The fact is that SysV works NOW. The scripts work and 
are stable and are FINE.

The changing of the init system out into some huge octopus
of a secondary OS under the kernel was NOT and _IS_ not
a proper decision for the technical committie to make,
just as changing from the linux kernel to some other 
kernel would be improper for that venue.

This is a psyops.
Systemd has won not by merit but by force and politics.
It is a gargantuan 200k line unaudited mess running
as with full privledges.

Concurrent boot allready exists in sysv, and is as
easy as writing a shell script with & between each command
within each set of commands needed to start 
concurrently.

bla & bla & bla;
blu & blu & blu & blu;
etc

I program 3d, 2d, and text console programs for linux etc.
I make 3d architectual maps, models, music, textures, and so on.
I do enough. The linux I like exists right now, and has for years.

You do NOT have the right to tell me to go roll my own.
You do NOT have the right to take linux from me or anyone else
who actually does work.
AND YOU DO NOT have the right to go tell us to roll our own
when what we like allready EXISTS NOW.

You people need to be stopped. By any means necessary.
Linux IS about choice. You are extinguishing that choice.
This is political.

The man has a right to his GR. You have NO right to pressure
him into not calling it.

Call the GR officially please.

In Respose To:
....
Hi Matthew,

Your rationale does not explain how the normal policy process has failed to 
deliver the outcomes required by the project. I think the project should 
require a very clear explanation as to why it should interfere in this 
process. At least one policy editor and the relevant maintainers have 
already been working on this and the process is in no way deadlocked. Given 
that, I can't see any reason why this work should be disrupted. 

If you do have a rationale for pressing forward on this GR, then you should 
also note that the wording in this proposed resolution is poorly constructed 
quite simply because some of the issues that are very clearly articulated in 
#727708 have been ignored [0]. 

The worst problem is that the particular wording here fails the "someone 
should do something" test -- that's not how Debian or Free Software works at 
all. If no-one has a particular itch to actually sit down and write an 
alternative implementation, then the work doesn't get done. Demanding, as 
the proposed text does, that some future and unnamed group of people must do 
some work is doomed. At least the absence of volunteers to declassify 
debian-private mails doesn't make packages RC buggy.

Perhaps all our energies would be better spent fixing real bugs rather than 
arguing about hypothetical ones? It would be disappointing for us to waste 
yet more time and energy on this matter rather than actually concentrating 
on making a great release. Feel free to pick any of the 300ish RC bugs in 
jessie if you need some suggestions.

Stuart

[0] And I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the proposers of GRs 
on this issue would have read this information carefully.

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