Message-ID: <535CCA93.1080504@gmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 27 Apr 2014 11:14:59 +0200
From:	"Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@...il.com>
To:	NeilBrown <neilb@...e.de>
CC:	mtk.manpages@...il.com,
	"Stefan (metze) Metzmacher" <metze@...ba.org>,
	Jeff Layton <jlayton@...hat.com>,
	Rich Felker <dalias@...c.org>, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, samba-technical@...ts.samba.org,
	Ganesha NFS List <nfs-ganesha-devel@...ts.sourceforge.net>,
	Carlos O'Donell <carlos@...hat.com>,
	libc-alpha <libc-alpha@...rceware.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] locks: rename file-private locks to file-description
 locks

On 04/27/2014 06:51 AM, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 06:54:36 +0200 "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)"
> <mtk.manpages@...il.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 04/21/2014 11:15 PM, Stefan (metze) Metzmacher wrote:
>>> Am 21.04.2014 21:55, schrieb Jeff Layton:
>>>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 21:39:12 +0200
>>>> "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@...il.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/21/2014 08:46 PM, Rich Felker wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 08:32:44PM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
>>>>>>> On 04/21/2014 06:10 PM, Rich Felker wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm well aware of that. The problem is that the proposed API is using
>>>>>>>> the two-letter abbreviation FD, which ALWAYS means file descriptor and
>>>>>>>> NEVER means file description (in existing usage) to mean file
>>>>>>>> description. That's what's wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, can you *please* answer this question: what do you call (i.e., 
>>>>>>> what  everyday technical language term do use for) the thing
>>>>>>> that sits between a file descriptor and an i-node? 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Please don't say 'struct file' -- that is not is an implementation 
>>>>>>> detail, and does not qualify as the kind of term that I could use 
>>>>>>> when documenting this feature in man pages.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Open file description".
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh! I didn't realize we agreed :-).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> POSIX uses (or invented, I am not sure which) the term file description
>>>>>>> for a good reason: it is unambiguous, and therefore precise. I do agree
>>>>>>> that there's a risk of confusion between 'open file descriptor" and 
>>>>>>> 'and file description'--it's the same kind of risk as between English 
>>>>>>> terms such as 'arbitrator' and 'arbitration' (and any number of other
>>>>>>> examples), and as language speakers we deal with this every day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's not a problem when the full word is used. On the other hand,
>>>>>> if you use "arb" as an abbreviation for "arbitration" in a context
>>>>>> where it was already universally understood as meaning "arbitrator",
>>>>>> that would be a big problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Likewise the problem here isn't that "open file description" is a bad
>>>>>> term. It's that using "FD" to mean "[open] file description" is
>>>>>> utterly confusing, even moreso than just making up a new completely
>>>>>> random word.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ohh -- I had thought you a problem not just with "FD" but also
>>>>> "(open) file description".
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) The new API constants (F_SETLKP, F_SETLKPW, F_GETLKP) have names
>>>>>>>>>    that are visually very close to the traditional POSIX lock names 
>>>>>>>>>    (F_SETLK, F_SETLKW, F_GETLK). That's an accident waiting to happen
>>>>>>>>>    when someone mistypes in code and/or misses such a misttyping
>>>>>>>>>    when reading code. That really must be fixed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree, but I don't think making it worse is a solution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't agree that it's making it worse. The real problem here is 
>>>>>>> that people use no good unambiguous term for the thing between a file
>>>>>>> descriptor and an inode. POSIX provides us with a solution that may
>>>>>>> not seem perfect, but it is unambiguous, and I think it might feel
>>>>>>> more comfortable if we used it often enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to see it used more too, and in particular, I think it
>>>>>> belongs in the documentation for these new locking interfaces. But
>>>>>> that still doesn't answer the question of what to call them (the
>>>>>> macros) unless you want:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> F_OPEN_FILE_DESCRIPTION_GETLK
>>>>>> F_OPEN_FILE_DESCRIPTION_SETLK
>>>>>> F_OPEN_FILE_DESCRIPTION_SETLKW
>>>>>
>>>>> Or just 'F_OFD_*'?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps "OP" (for open-private, i.e. private to the particular open)
>>>>>> would be a sensible choice; OTOH people are likely to misread it as
>>>>>> OPeration. The general principle I have in mind though is that it
>>>>>> might be nice to highlight the word "open" in "open file description"
>>>>>
>>>>> (Fair enough.)
>>>>>
>>>>>> since it (1) contrasts with file descriptor, despite file descriptors
>>>>>> also dealing with open files, and (2) contrasts well with legacy fcntl
>>>>>> locks, which are (this is the whole bug) associated with the
>>>>>> underlying file and not the open file description.
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes sense to me. (We are in more agreement that I realized.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So the motion is to call them "open file description locks" and change
>>>> the macros to read *_OFD_*. Does anyone object?
>>>
>>> Works fine for me...
>>
>> And works for me.
>>
>>
> 
> I think the word "open" is important here.
> I find that "description" is not a word I would have every thought was
> relevant here - it is obviously too long since I have read the man pages.
> 
> I would prefer
>   per-open locks

The problem I see with that is that the term doesn't really convey
any meaning. So, I think OFD locks is better (albeit a bit of a mouthful).

> which are contrasted with
>   per-process locks

And that term isn't really used, except in recent discussions.

> An alternative might be "flock-like" as locks created with "flock" have
> exactly the property we are trying to describe.  Reading the man page for
> "flock" then suggests "open file table entry locks" 

That was true until a few days ago:
http://git.kernel.org/cgit/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=61a37c81ef11da9a12df91da181b943ef29cf2ba

> which is even more of a
> mouthful.  "oftel" is pronounceable though.  Then we could talk about "oftel
> locks" in the same sentence as "pin numbers" and "RAM memory".

I'll give full marks for inventiveness. But, the man-pages are moving 
(even) more consistently to the POSIX terminology, so I think that term
would have its own confusions.

> But maybe I came too late to this party, and the boat has sailed?

Jeff's decision in the end, but I suspect yes. 

> Note to Michael: The text
>    flock() does not lock files over NFS.
> in flock(2) is no longer accurate.  The reality is ... complex.
> See nfs(5), and search for "local_lock".

I'll take this to a separate mail...

Cheers,

Michael

-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/
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