linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH 0/2] kpatch: dynamic kernel patching

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Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1405161822050.16459@pobox.suse.cz>
Date:	Fri, 16 May 2014 18:27:27 +0200 (CEST)
From:	Jiri Kosina <jkosina@...e.cz>
To:	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>
cc:	Masami Hiramatsu <masami.hiramatsu.pt@...achi.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@...il.com>,
	Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@...hat.com>,
	Seth Jennings <sjenning@...hat.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>, Jiri Slaby <jslaby@...e.cz>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@...llo.nl>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/2] kpatch: dynamic kernel patching

On Tue, 6 May 2014, Steven Rostedt wrote:

> > However, I also think if users can accept such freezing wait-time,
> > it means they can also accept kexec based "checkpoint-restart" patching.
> > So, I think the final goal of the kpatch will be live patching without
> > stopping the machine. I'm discussing the issue on github #138, but that is
> > off-topic. :)
> 
> I agree with Ingo too. Being conservative at first is the right
> approach here. We should start out with a stop_machine making sure that
> everything is sane before we continue. Sure, that's not much different
> than a kexec, but lets take things one step at a time.
> 
> ftrace did the stop_machine (and still does for some archs), and slowly
> moved to a more efficient method. kpatch/kgraft should follow suit.

I don't really agree here.

I actually believe that "lazy" switching kgraft is doing provides a little 
bit more in the sense of consistency than stop_machine()-based aproach.

Consider this scenario:

	void foo()
	{
		for (i=0; i<10000; i++) {
			bar(i);
			something_else(i);
		}
	}

Let's say you want to live-patch bar(). With stop_machine()-based aproach, 
you can easily end-up with old bar() and new bar() being called in two 
consecutive iterations before the loop is even exited, right? (especially 
on preemptible kernel, or if something_else() goes to sleep).

With lazy-switching implemented in kgraft, this can never happen.

So I'd like to ask for a little bit more explanation why you think the 
stop_machine()-based patching provides more sanity/consistency assurance 
than the lazy switching we're doing.

Thanks a lot,

-- 
Jiri Kosina
SUSE Labs
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