Message-ID: <20140519231859.GA21636@bbox>
Date:	Tue, 20 May 2014 08:18:59 +0900
From:	Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org>
To:	Joonsoo Kim <iamjoonsoo.kim@....com>
Cc:	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@...hat.com>,
	Laura Abbott <lauraa@...eaurora.org>, linux-mm@...ck.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Michal Nazarewicz <mina86@...a86.com>,
	Heesub Shin <heesub.shin@...sung.com>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@...e.de>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>,
	Marek Szyprowski <m.szyprowski@...sung.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 2/3] CMA: aggressively allocate the pages on cma
 reserved memory when not used

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 01:50:01PM +0900, Joonsoo Kim wrote:
> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:53:05AM +0900, Minchan Kim wrote:
> > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:11:21AM +0900, Joonsoo Kim wrote:
> > > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:43:53AM +0900, Minchan Kim wrote:
> > > > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:53:01AM +0900, Joonsoo Kim wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 12:00:57PM +0900, Minchan Kim wrote:
> > > > > > Hey Joonsoo,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 09:32:23AM +0900, Joonsoo Kim wrote:
> > > > > > > CMA is introduced to provide physically contiguous pages at runtime.
> > > > > > > For this purpose, it reserves memory at boot time. Although it reserve
> > > > > > > memory, this reserved memory can be used for movable memory allocation
> > > > > > > request. This usecase is beneficial to the system that needs this CMA
> > > > > > > reserved memory infrequently and it is one of main purpose of
> > > > > > > introducing CMA.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > But, there is a problem in current implementation. The problem is that
> > > > > > > it works like as just reserved memory approach. The pages on cma reserved
> > > > > > > memory are hardly used for movable memory allocation. This is caused by
> > > > > > > combination of allocation and reclaim policy.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The pages on cma reserved memory are allocated if there is no movable
> > > > > > > memory, that is, as fallback allocation. So the time this fallback
> > > > > > > allocation is started is under heavy memory pressure. Although it is under
> > > > > > > memory pressure, movable allocation easily succeed, since there would be
> > > > > > > many pages on cma reserved memory. But this is not the case for unmovable
> > > > > > > and reclaimable allocation, because they can't use the pages on cma
> > > > > > > reserved memory. These allocations regard system's free memory as
> > > > > > > (free pages - free cma pages) on watermark checking, that is, free
> > > > > > > unmovable pages + free reclaimable pages + free movable pages. Because
> > > > > > > we already exhausted movable pages, only free pages we have are unmovable
> > > > > > > and reclaimable types and this would be really small amount. So watermark
> > > > > > > checking would be failed. It will wake up kswapd to make enough free
> > > > > > > memory for unmovable and reclaimable allocation and kswapd will do.
> > > > > > > So before we fully utilize pages on cma reserved memory, kswapd start to
> > > > > > > reclaim memory and try to make free memory over the high watermark. This
> > > > > > > watermark checking by kswapd doesn't take care free cma pages so many
> > > > > > > movable pages would be reclaimed. After then, we have a lot of movable
> > > > > > > pages again, so fallback allocation doesn't happen again. To conclude,
> > > > > > > amount of free memory on meminfo which includes free CMA pages is moving
> > > > > > > around 512 MB if I reserve 512 MB memory for CMA.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I found this problem on following experiment.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 4 CPUs, 1024 MB, VIRTUAL MACHINE
> > > > > > > make -j24
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > CMA reserve:		0 MB		512 MB
> > > > > > > Elapsed-time:		234.8		361.8
> > > > > > > Average-MemFree:	283880 KB	530851 KB
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > To solve this problem, I can think following 2 possible solutions.
> > > > > > > 1. allocate the pages on cma reserved memory first, and if they are
> > > > > > >    exhausted, allocate movable pages.
> > > > > > > 2. interleaved allocation: try to allocate specific amounts of memory
> > > > > > >    from cma reserved memory and then allocate from free movable memory.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I love this idea but when I see the code, I don't like that.
> > > > > > In allocation path, just try to allocate pages by round-robin so it's role
> > > > > > of allocator. If one of migratetype is full, just pass mission to reclaimer
> > > > > > with hint(ie, Hey reclaimer, it's non-movable allocation fail
> > > > > > so there is pointless if you reclaim MIGRATE_CMA pages) so that
> > > > > > reclaimer can filter it out during page scanning.
> > > > > > We already have an tool to achieve it(ie, isolate_mode_t).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I agree with leaving fast allocation path as simple as possible.
> > > > > I will remove runtime computation for determining ratio in
> > > > > __rmqueue_cma() and, instead, will use pre-computed value calculated
> > > > > on the other path.
> > > > 
> > > > Sounds good.
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am not sure that whether your second suggestion(Hey relaimer part)
> > > > > is good or not. In my quick thought, that could be helpful in the
> > > > > situation that many free cma pages remained. But, it would be not helpful
> > > > > when there are neither free movable and cma pages. In generally, most
> > > > > workloads mainly uses movable pages for page cache or anonymous mapping.
> > > > > Although reclaim is triggered by non-movable allocation failure, reclaimed
> > > > > pages are used mostly by movable allocation. We can handle these allocation
> > > > > request even if we reclaim the pages just in lru order. If we rotate
> > > > > the lru list for finding movable pages, it could cause more useful
> > > > > pages to be evicted.
> > > > > 
> > > > > This is just my quick thought, so please let me correct if I am wrong.
> > > > 
> > > > Why should reclaimer reclaim unnecessary pages?
> > > > So, your answer is that it would be better because upcoming newly allocated
> > > > pages would be allocated easily without interrupt. But it could reclaim
> > > > too much pages until watermark for unmovable allocation is okay.
> > > > Even, sometime, you might see OOM.
> > > > 
> > > > Moreover, how could you handle current trobule?
> > > > For example, there is atomic allocation and the only thing to save the world
> > > > is kswapd because it's one of kswapd role but kswapd is spending many time to
> > > > reclaim CMA pages, which is pointless so the allocation would be easily failed.
> > > 
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I guess that it isn't the problem. In lru, movable pages and cma pages
> > > would be interleaved. So it doesn't takes too long time to get the
> > > page for non-movable allocation.
> > 
> > Please, don't assume there are ideal LRU ordering.
> > Newly allocated page by fairness allocation is located by head of LRU
> > while old pages are approaching the tail so there is huge time gab.
> > During the time, old pages could be dropped/promoting so one of side
> > could be filled with one type rather than interleaving both types pages
> > you expected.
> 
> I assumed general case, not ideal case.
> Your example can be possible, but would be corner case.

I talked with Joonsoo yesterday and should post our conclusion
for other reviewers/maintainers.

It's not a corner case and it could happen depending on zone and CMA
configuration. For example, there is 330M high zone and CMA consumes
300M in the space while normal movable area consumes just 30M.
In the case, unmovable allocation could make too many unnecessary
reclaiming of the zone so the conclusion we reached is to need target
reclaiming(ex, isolate_mode_t).

But not sure it should be part of this patchset because this patchset
is surely enhance(ie, before, it was hard to allocate page from CMA area
but this patchset makes it works) but this patchset could make mentioned
problem as side-effect so I think we could solve the issue(ie, too many
reclaiming in unbalanced zone) in another patchset.

Joonsoo, please mention this problem in the description when you respin
so other MM guys can notice that and give ideas, which would be helpful
a lot.

> 
> > 
> > Additionally, if you uses syncable backed device like ramdisk/zram
> > or something, pageout can be synchronized with page I/O.
> > In this case, reclaim time wouldn't be trivial than async I/O.
> > For exmaple, zram-swap case, it needs page copy + comperssion and
> > the speed depends on your CPU speed.
> 
> This is a general problem what zram-swap have,
> although reclaiming cma pages worse the situation.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
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-- 
Kind regards,
Minchan Kim
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