Date:	Mon, 19 May 2014 18:22:31 +0100
From:	Dave Martin <Dave.Martin@....com>
To:	Thierry Reding <thierry.reding@...il.com>
Cc:	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
	"linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org" 
	<linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org>,
	Rob Herring <robh+dt@...nel.org>,
	Pawel Moll <Pawel.Moll@....com>,
	Mark Rutland <Mark.Rutland@....com>,
	Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@...lion.org.uk>,
	Kumar Gala <galak@...eaurora.org>,
	"devicetree@...r.kernel.org" <devicetree@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-samsung-soc@...r.kernel.org" 
	<linux-samsung-soc@...r.kernel.org>,
	Stephen Warren <swarren@...dotorg.org>,
	Grant Grundler <grundler@...omium.org>,
	Joerg Roedel <joro@...tes.org>,
	Will Deacon <Will.Deacon@....com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Marc Zyngier <Marc.Zyngier@....com>,
	"iommu@...ts.linux-foundation.org" <iommu@...ts.linux-foundation.org>,
	"linux-tegra@...r.kernel.org" <linux-tegra@...r.kernel.org>,
	Cho KyongHo <pullip.cho@...sung.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] devicetree: Add generic IOMMU device tree bindings

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 01:53:37PM +0100, Thierry Reding wrote:
> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:26:35PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > On Friday 16 May 2014 14:23:18 Thierry Reding wrote:
> > > From: Thierry Reding <treding@...dia.com>
> > > 
> > > This commit introduces a generic device tree binding for IOMMU devices.
> > > Only a very minimal subset is described here, but it is enough to cover
> > > the requirements of both the Exynos System MMU and Tegra SMMU as
> > > discussed here:
> > > 
> > >     https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/27/346
> > > 
> > > More advanced functionality such as the dma-ranges property can easily
> > > be added in a backwards-compatible way. In the absence of a dma-ranges
> > > property it should be safe to default to the whole address space.
> > > 
> > 
> > The basic binding looks fine, but I'd like it to be more explicit
> > about dma-ranges. Most importantly, what does "the whole address space"
> > mean?
> 
> The whole point was to leave out any mention of dma-ranges from the
> binding until we've figured out more of the puzzle.
> 
> So what I was trying to avoid was another lengthy discussion on the
> topic of dma-ranges. Oh well... =)

Apologies for the silence on this topic...  I'm trying to do too many
things at the sime time as usual :/

> 
> > A lot of IOMMUs have only 32-bit bus addresses when targetted
> > by a bus master, it would also be normal for some to be smaller and
> > some might even support 64-bit.
> > 
> > For the upstream side, I'd hope we always have access to the full
> > physical memory, but since this is a brand-new binding, it should
> > be straightforward to just ask for upstream dma-ranges properties
> > to be set all the way up to the root to confirm that.
> > 
> > For downstream, we don't actually have a good place to put the
> > dma-ranges property.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by upstream and downstream in
> this context.
> 
> > We can't put it into the iommu node, because  that would imply translating
> > to the iommu's parent bus, not the iommu's own bus space.
> 
> My understanding was that the purpose of dma-ranges was to define a
> mapping from one bus to another. So the general form of
> 
> 	child-address  parent-address  child-size
> 
> Would be used to translate a region of size <child-size> from the
> <child-address> (the I/O address space created by the IOMMU) to the
> <parent-address> (physical address space).
> 
> > We also can't put it into the master, because dma-ranges is supposed to be
> > in the parent bus.
> 
> I don't understand. From the above I would think that the master's node
> is precisely where it belongs.
> 
> > Finally, it makes no sense to use the dma-ranges property of the master's
> > parent bus, because that bus isn't actually involved in the translation.
> 
> My understanding here is mostly based on the OpenFirmware working group
> proposal for the dma-ranges property[0]. I'll give another example to
> try and clarify how I had imagined this to work:
> 
> 	/ {
> 		#address-cells = <2>;
> 		#size-cells = <2>;
> 
> 		iommu {
> 			/*
> 			 * This is somewhat unusual (or maybe not) in that we
> 			 * need 2 cells to represent the size of an address
> 			 * space that is 32 bits long.
> 			 */
> 			#address-cells = <1>;
> 			#size-cells = <2>;
> 
> 			#iommu-cells = <1>;
> 		};
> 
> 		master {
> 			iommus = <&/iommu 42>;

Comparing this with the other discussion thread, we have a similar
concept here, in that the iommu is made a logical parent, however...

Firstly, there's an implicit assumption here that the only kind of
thing the master could possibly be connected to is an IOMMU, with
no non-trivial interconnect in between.  I'm not sure this is going
to scale to complex SoCs.

If a range of Stream IDs may be issued (especially from something like
a PCIe RC where the stream ID may be a many-bit value), describing
the IDs individually may be impractical.

> 			/*
> 			 * Map I/O addresses 0 - 4 GiB to physical addresses
> 			 * 2 GiB - 6 GiB.
> 			 */
> 			dma-ranges = <0x00000000 0 0x80000000 1 0>;

... I concur with Arnd dma-ranges is now in the wrong place with
respect to the (overridden) child-parent relationship, and that if
this device masters to multiple destinations there's no possibility
of describing different ranges mappings for each.

> 		};
> 	};
> 
> This is somewhat incompatible with [0] in that #address-cells used to
> parse the child address must be taken from the iommu node rather than
> the child node. But that seems to me to be the only reasonable thing
> to do, because after all the IOMMU creates a completely new address
> space for the master.
> 
> [0]: http://www.openfirmware.org/ofwg/proposals/Closed/Accepted/410-it.txt
> 
> > My preferred option would be to always put the address range into
> > the iommu descriptor, using the iommu's #address-cells.
> 
> That could become impossible to parse. I'm not sure if such hardware
> actually exists, but if for some reason we have to split the address
> range into two, then there's no longer any way to determine the size
> needed for the specifier.
> 
> On the other hand what you propose makes it easy to represent multiple
> master interfaces on a device. With a separate dma-ranges property how
> can you define which ranges apply to which of the master interfaces?

In theory, you could describe split ranges simply by multiplying out:

	<&/iommu 42 sub-range-1>,
	<&/iommu 42 sub-range-2>,
	...

This is only manageable if the number of subranges for each
(iommu,streamID) mapping is small (and usually 1).

Of course, I hope the number of subranges normally _is_ small...


Cheers
---Dave
	
> Then again if address ranges can't be broken up in the first place, then
> dma-ranges could be considered to be one entry per IOMMU in the iommus
> property.
> 
> Thierry


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