linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH 0/5] futex: introduce an optimistic spinning futex

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:	Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:31:32 -0700
From:	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>
To:	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
Cc:	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	Andi Kleen <andi@...stfloor.org>,
	Waiman Long <Waiman.Long@...com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Davidlohr Bueso <davidlohr@...com>,
	Heiko Carstens <heiko.carstens@...ibm.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-doc@...r.kernel.org" <linux-doc@...r.kernel.org>,
	Jason Low <jason.low2@...com>,
	Scott J Norton <scott.norton@...com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/5] futex: introduce an optimistic spinning futex

On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 10:16:37PM +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Darren Hart wrote:
>> > We observed some significant improvements under some very specific use
>> > cases, but a more thorough dive into performance impact in the other cases
>> > as well as security implications with the vdso is still wanting.
>>
>> The security implication is that the feature can only be available for
>> process private futexes. There is no way to expose information which
>> crosses the process spaces.
>>
>> But the way worse issue is storage.
>>
>> While you can cache the namespace specific TID of a thread in the
>> task_struct, you still need a O(1) zero overhead mechanism to update
>> the thread state (only on/off cpu is interesting) in a per process
>> shared data structure from the guts of schedule()
>>
>> For that you have basically two choices:
>>
>> 1) cpu_thread_id[NR_CPUS]
>>
>>    Simple to update from the scheduler, and a halfways moderate
>>    storage size (NR_CPUS * 4 bytes) in the worst case, i.e. 16k
>>    today. Set to 0 on scheduling out and to the namespace specific TID
>>    on scheduling in.
>>
>>    But that requires a linear search in the user space spin loop. And
>>    that's required for every iteration of the loop. Can you imagine
>>    how well that works performance wise?
>>
>> 2) Bitmap threads_on_cpu
>>
>>    Again, simple to update from the scheduler, cache line bouncing
>>    issues aside. Clear the bit on schedule out and set it on schedule
>>    in.
>>
>>    But the bitmap needs the size of PID_MAX_LIMIT, which is a whopping
>>    512k per process in the worst case.
>>
>> Anything else would involve search/lookup schemes which are just
>> overkill in both the scheduler and the user space loop.
>>
>> Now for enhanced fun you need immutable pages for that storage, as you
>> can't have pagefaults in the guts of schedule().
>>
>> So once you found a way to make that opt-in as you don't want inflict
>> any of this to all processes by default, it might be a worthwhile
>> optimization. So the probably tolerable impact on schedule() would be
>>
>> schedule_out()
>>       if (curr->threads_on_cpu)
>>               clear_bit(curr->ns_tid, curr->threads_on_cpu);
>> and
>>
>> schedule_in()
>>       if (curr->threads_on_cpu)
>>               clear_bit(curr->ns_tid, curr->threads_on_cpu);
>>
>> Anything more complex is just going to defeat the whole purpose.
>
> All this is predicated on the fact that syscalls are 'expensive'.
> Weren't syscalls only 100s of cycles? All this bitmap mucking is far
> more expensive due to cacheline misses, which due to the size of the
> things is almost guaranteed.

120 - 300 cycles for me, unless tracing happens, and I'm working on
reducing the incidence of tracing.

--Andy

> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-api" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html



-- 
Andy Lutomirski
AMA Capital Management, LLC
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/