Date:	Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:41:31 +0200
From:	Daniel Vetter <daniel@...ll.ch>
To:	"Bridgman, John" <John.Bridgman@....com>
Cc:	Daniel Vetter <daniel.vetter@...ll.ch>,
	"Gabbay, Oded" <Oded.Gabbay@....com>,
	Jerome Glisse <j.glisse@...il.com>,
	Christian König <deathsimple@...afone.de>,
	David Airlie <airlied@...ux.ie>,
	Alex Deucher <alexdeucher@...il.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Joerg Roedel <joro@...tes.org>,
	"Lewycky, Andrew" <Andrew.Lewycky@....com>,
	"Daenzer, Michel" <Michel.Daenzer@....com>,
	"Goz, Ben" <Ben.Goz@....com>,
	"Skidanov, Alexey" <Alexey.Skidanov@....com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org" <dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org>,
	linux-mm <linux-mm@...ck.org>, "Sellek, Tom" <Tom.Sellek@....com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 00/25] AMDKFD kernel driver

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 01:33:24PM +0000, Bridgman, John wrote:
> 
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Daniel Vetter [mailto:daniel.vetter@...ll.ch]
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:06 AM
> >To: Gabbay, Oded
> >Cc: Jerome Glisse; Christian König; David Airlie; Alex Deucher; Andrew
> >Morton; Bridgman, John; Joerg Roedel; Lewycky, Andrew; Daenzer, Michel;
> >Goz, Ben; Skidanov, Alexey; linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org; dri-
> >devel@...ts.freedesktop.org; linux-mm; Sellek, Tom
> >Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 00/25] AMDKFD kernel driver
> >
> >On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Oded Gabbay <oded.gabbay@....com>
> >wrote:
> >> On 22/07/14 14:15, Daniel Vetter wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:52:43PM +0300, Oded Gabbay wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 22/07/14 12:21, Daniel Vetter wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Oded Gabbay
> ><oded.gabbay@....com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Exactly, just prevent userspace from submitting more. And if you
> >>>>>>> have misbehaving userspace that submits too much, reset the gpu
> >>>>>>> and tell it that you're sorry but won't schedule any more work.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not sure how you intend to know if a userspace misbehaves or not.
> >>>>>> Can
> >>>>>> you elaborate ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well that's mostly policy, currently in i915 we only have a check
> >>>>> for hangs, and if userspace hangs a bit too often then we stop it.
> >>>>> I guess you can do that with the queue unmapping you've describe in
> >>>>> reply to Jerome's mail.
> >>>>> -Daniel
> >>>>>
> >>>> What do you mean by hang ? Like the tdr mechanism in Windows (checks
> >>>> if a gpu job takes more than 2 seconds, I think, and if so,
> >>>> terminates the job).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Essentially yes. But we also have some hw features to kill jobs
> >>> quicker, e.g. for media workloads.
> >>> -Daniel
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yeah, so this is what I'm talking about when I say that you and Jerome
> >> come from a graphics POV and amdkfd come from a compute POV, no
> >offense intended.
> >>
> >> For compute jobs, we simply can't use this logic to terminate jobs.
> >> Graphics are mostly Real-Time while compute jobs can take from a few
> >> ms to a few hours!!! And I'm not talking about an entire application
> >> runtime but on a single submission of jobs by the userspace app. We
> >> have tests with jobs that take between 20-30 minutes to complete. In
> >> theory, we can even imagine a compute job which takes 1 or 2 days (on
> >larger APUs).
> >>
> >> Now, I understand the question of how do we prevent the compute job
> >> from monopolizing the GPU, and internally here we have some ideas that
> >> we will probably share in the next few days, but my point is that I
> >> don't think we can terminate a compute job because it is running for more
> >than x seconds.
> >> It is like you would terminate a CPU process which runs more than x
> >seconds.
> >>
> >> I think this is a *very* important discussion (detecting a misbehaved
> >> compute process) and I would like to continue it, but I don't think
> >> moving the job submission from userspace control to kernel control
> >> will solve this core problem.
> >
> >Well graphics gets away with cooperative scheduling since usually people
> >want to see stuff within a few frames, so we can legitimately kill jobs after a
> >fairly short timeout. Imo if you want to allow userspace to submit compute
> >jobs that are atomic and take a few minutes to hours with no break-up in
> >between and no hw means to preempt then that design is screwed up. We
> >really can't tell the core vm that "sorry we will hold onto these gobloads of
> >memory you really need now for another few hours". Pinning memory like
> >that essentially without a time limit is restricted to root.
> 
> Hi Daniel;
> 
> I don't really understand the reference to "gobloads of memory". Unlike
> radeon graphics, the userspace data for HSA applications is maintained
> in pageable system memory and accessed via the IOMMUv2 (ATC/PRI). The
> IOMMUv2 driver and mm subsystem takes care of faulting in memory pages
> as needed, nothing is long-term pinned.

Yeah I've lost that part of the equation a bit since I've always thought
that proper faulting support without preemption is not really possible. I
guess those platforms completely stall on a fault until the ptes are all
set up?
-Daniel
-- 
Daniel Vetter
Software Engineer, Intel Corporation
+41 (0) 79 365 57 48 - http://blog.ffwll.ch
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