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Date:	Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:30:46 +0200
From:	Nicolas Dichtel <nicolas.dichtel@...nd.com>
To:	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>,
	Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@...hat.com>
CC:	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>,
	Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux Containers <containers@...ts.linux-foundation.org>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	linux-audit@...hat.com,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
	netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH V4 3/8] namespaces: expose ns instance serial numbers
 in proc

Le 24/08/2014 19:52, Andy Lutomirski a écrit :
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:58 PM, Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@...hat.com> wrote:
>> On 14/08/21, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>>> On Aug 20, 2014 8:12 PM, "Richard Guy Briggs" <rgb@...hat.com> wrote:
>>>> Expose the namespace instace serial numbers in the proc filesystem at
>>>> /proc/<pid>/ns/<ns>_snum.  The link text gives the serial number in hex.
>>>
>>> What's the use case?
>>>
>>> I understand the utility of giving unique numbers to the audit code,
>>> but I don't think this part is necessary for that, and I'd like to
>>> understand what else will use this before committing to a duplicative
>>> API like this.
>>
>> How does a container manager get those numbers?  It could provoke a task
>> to cause an audit event that emits a NS_INFO message, or it could run a
>> task in that container to report its namespace serial numbers directly
>> from its /proc mount.
>
> Why does a container manager need them?  Is there any reason that
> keeping them entirely contained within the audit system would be a
> problem?
>
>>
>> The discussion in this thread touches on the use cases:
>>          https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/22/662
>>
>>> Note that this API is thoroughly incompatible with CRIU.  If we do
>>> this, someone will ask for a namespace number namespace, and that way
>>> lies madness.
>>
>> I had a very brief look at CRIU, but not enough to understand the issue.
>> Others have hinted at this problem.
>>
>> Do you have a suggestion of a different approach that would be
>> compatible with CRIU?
>>
>> I'd originally considered some sort of UUID that would be globally
>> unique, but that would be very hard to devise or guarantee, and besides,
>> namespaces aren't only used by containers and could be shared in other
>> ways.  Tracking the usage and migration of namespaces should be the task
>> of an upper layer.
>>
>
> CRIU wants to save the complete state of a namespace and then restore
> it.  For that to work, any information exposed to things in the
> namespace *cannot* be globally unique or unique per boot, since CRIU
> needs to arrange for that information to match whatever it was when
> CRIU saved it.
How are ifindex of network devices managed? These ifindexes are unique per boot,
thus can change depending on the order in which netdev are created.
These ifindexes are unique per boot and exposed to userspace ...

>
> Also, I think that code running in a namespace has no business even
> knowing a unique identity of that namespace from the perspective of
> the host.
Another scenario is when you have virtual network devices across two netns. You
need to identify the peer netns to have a netlink message which is fully 
interpretable by the userspace.


Regards,
Nicolas
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