linux-kernel - Re: bit fields && data tearing

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Message-ID: <20140911161653.GA4775@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
Date:	Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:16:53 -0700
From:	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	One Thousand Gnomes <gnomes@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc:	Peter Hurley <peter@...leysoftware.com>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>,
	David Laight <David.Laight@...LAB.COM>,
	Jakub Jelinek <jakub@...hat.com>,
	"linux-arch@...r.kernel.org" <linux-arch@...r.kernel.org>,
	Tony Luck <tony.luck@...el.com>,
	"linux-ia64@...r.kernel.org" <linux-ia64@...r.kernel.org>,
	Oleg Nesterov <oleg@...hat.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@...ba.org>,
	"linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org" <linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org>,
	Miroslav Franc <mfranc@...hat.com>,
	Richard Henderson <rth@...ddle.net>,
	linux-alpha@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: bit fields && data tearing

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:04:11AM +0100, One Thousand Gnomes wrote:
> > > Is *that* what we are talking about?  I was added to this conversation
> > > in the middle where it had already generalized, so I had no idea.
> > 
> > No, this is just what brought this craziness to my attention.
> 
> None of it is craziness. It's the real world leaking into the crazy
> delusional world of sequential programming. Machines are going to get
> more not less parallel.

Amen to that!!!

> > For example, byte- and short-sized circular buffers could not possibly
> > be safe either, when the head nears the tail.
> > 
> > Who has audited global storage and ensured that _every_ byte-sized write
> > doesn't happen to be adjacent to some other storage that may not happen
> > to be protected by the same (or any) lock?
> 
> Thats a meaningless question. Have you audited it all for correctness of
> any other form. Have you mathematically verified the functionality as a
> set of formal proofs ? If you can't prove its formally mathematically
> functionally correct why are you worried about this ?
> 
> Alpha works, maybe it has a near theoretical race on that point. It's not
> any worse than it was 15 years ago and nobody has really hit a problem
> with it. So from that you can usefully infer that those buffer cases are
> not proving a real problem.

Fair enough, I guess.

But Alpha's limitations were given as a reason to restrict
smp_store_release() and smp_load_acquire() from providing one-byte and
two-byte variants.  Of course, I am OK "probabilistically supporting"
pre-EV56 Alpha CPUs, but only if they don't get in the way of us doing
smp_store_release() and smp_load_acquire() on chars and shorts.  So if
pre-EV56 support has to go in order to allow smp_store_release() and
smp_load_acquire() on small data types, then pre-EV56 support simply
has to go.

Alternatively, one way to support this old hardware on a more
deterministic basis is to make the compiler use ll/sc sequences to do
byte and short accesses.  That would be fine as well.

						Thanx, Paul

> The tty locks together on the other hand are asking to hit it, and the
> problem you were trying to fix were the ones that need set_bit() to make
> the guarantees.
> 
> Alan
> 

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