Message-ID: <546BB9D9.6020204@osg.samsung.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:27:53 -0700
From:	Shuah Khan <shuahkh@....samsung.com>
To:	Sakari Ailus <sakari.ailus@....fi>
CC:	Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab@....samsung.com>,
	Takashi Iwai <tiwai@...e.de>,
	Pierre-Louis Bossart <pierre-louis.bossart@...ux.intel.com>,
	Devin Heitmueller <dheitmueller@...nellabs.com>,
	alsa-devel@...a-project.org, Lars-Peter Clausen <lars@...afoo.de>,
	Linux Media Mailing List <linux-media@...r.kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@...all.nl>,
	Sander Eikelenboom <linux@...elenboom.it>,
	prabhakar.csengg@...il.com, Antti Palosaari <crope@....fi>,
	Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@...asonboard.com>,
	"sakari.ailus@...ux.intel.com" <sakari.ailus@...ux.intel.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Tim Gardner <tim.gardner@...onical.com>,
	"olebowle@....com" <olebowle@....com>,
	Linux Kernel <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFCv2] Media Token API Spec.

On 11/18/2014 02:15 PM, Sakari Ailus wrote:
> Hi Shuah,
> 
> Many thanks for the RFC, for and being so patient with my terrible review
> schedule. My comments below.
> 
> On Tue, Nov 04, 2014 at 04:08:50PM -0700, Shuah Khan wrote:
>> Hi Mauro,
>>
>> Here is the RFC as promised. I also included the Media controller
>> as a an alternative and captured the discussion in the thread on
>> that topic. Please review.
>>
>> -- Shuah
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> RFC Media Token API Specification
>>
>> Let's start with a diagram of a media device (without IR, eeprom
>> and others):
>>
>> http://linuxtv.org/downloads/presentations/typical_hybrid_hardware.png
>>
>> The dot lines represent the parts of the graph that are switched by
>> the tuner, DMA or input select.
>>
>> Please notice that the DMA engines, together with the stuff needed to
>> control A/V switches is at one single chip. Changing the registers there
>> can affect the other streams, specially on most sophisticated devices
>> like cx231xx, where it even has a power management IP block that
>> validates if a device to be turned on/off won't exceed the maximum
>> drain current of 500mA. That's basically why we need to do a temporary
>> lock alsa, dvb, v4l and IR drivers when doing certain changes.
>>
>> Also, please notice that I2C buses that can be as slow as 10kbps
>> are used to control for several devices, like:
>>         - the tuner
>>         - the Digital TV (DTV) demod
>>         - Analog and/or Video demod (sometimes embedded at the main
>>           chip)
>>         - DTV demux (sometimes embedded at the main chip)
>>         - The remote controller (sometimes embedded at the main chip)
>>
>> For some devices, after powered on, or when certain parameters change, a
>> new firmware (and sometimes a hardware reset) is required. The firmware
>> size can be about 64KB or even bigger.
>>
>> Also, the A/V switch it is actually two independent switches (or one
>> switch for video and one audio mux for audio) that needs to be changed
>> together when the source changes.
>>
>> There are two components that are shared there between analog and
>> digital: the tuner (where the signal is captured) and the DMA engine
>> used to stream analog and Digital TV (dvb).
>>
>> PS.: the diagram is over-simplified, as the tuner is just one of the
>> possible inputs for the analog part of the device. Other possible
>> inputs are S-Video, composite, HDMI, etc.
>>
>> Sometimes, the audio DMA is also shared, e. g. just one stream comes
>> from the hardware. It is up to the driver to split audio and video and
>> send them to the V4L2 and ALSA APIs. This is the case of tm6000 driver.
>>
>> Those shared components can be used either at analog or digital mode,
>> but not at the same time.
>>
>> Also, programming the V4L2 analog and audio DMA and demods should be
>> done via V4L2 API, as this API allows the selection of the proper
>> audio/video input (almost all devices have multiple analog inputs).
>>
>> Please notice that, if the tuner is on digital mode, the entire analog
>> path is disabled, including ALSA output.
>>
>> If the tuner is on analog mode, both ALSA and V4L2 can work at the
>> same time. However, during the period where the tuner firmware is
>> loaded, and during the DMA configuration and input selection time,
>> neither ALSA or V4L2 can stream. Such configuration/firmware load
>> is commanded via V4L2 API, as ALSA knows nothing about tuner or
>> input selection.
>>
>> At a higher level the problem description is:
>>
>> There are 3 different device files that get created to control
>> tuner and audio functions on a media device. 4 drivers (dvb,
>> v4l2, alsa, and the main usb driver for the usb device), and
>> 3 core APIs (dvb-core, v4l-core, audio) that control the tuner
>> and audio hardware and provide user API to these 3 device files.
>>
>> The above driver model is simplified, there's 4th component for
>> some drivers: the mceusb driver, that handles remote controllers.
>> The mceusb handles the Microsoft Media Center Remote Control
>> protocol. It supports stand alone remote controller devices, but
>> it also supports a few USB devices that use a separate interface
>> for IR.
>>
>> There are currently some issues on cx231xx and mceusb, as both drivers
>> can be used at the same time, but, when cx231xx sends certain commands,
>> the mceusb IR polls fail. This is out of the scope of the audio lock,
>> but it also needs to be addressed some day.
>>
>> Most media user applications, drivers and the core have no knowledge
>> of each other. The only thing that is common across all these drivers
>> is the parent device for the main usb device which is controlled by
>> the usb driver.
>>
>> Some media user applications like MythTV can handle all 3 APIs,
>> however, MythTV doesn't know how to associate ALSA, V4L2 and DVB
>> devnodes that belong to the same device. If MythTV finds, 3 V4L2
>> nodes, 3 ALSA nodes, and 1 DVB node, it doesn't know which device
>> is associated with the DVB node.
>>
>> Almost all applications that are aware of V4L2 API are also aware of
>> ALSA API and may associate audio and video, as there is a way to
>> associate it using sysfs. However, several applications don't use it.
>>
>> The premise for the main design idea in this series is creating
>> a common construct at the parent device structure that is visible
>> to all drivers to act as a master access control (lock). Let's call
>> this media token object with two sub-tokens one for tuner and another
>> for audio.
>>
>> Each of the APIS evolved separately, hence have their own backwards
>> compatibility to maintain. Starting with v4l2:
>>
>> V4L2 case:
>> Multiple v4l2 applications are allowed to open /dev/video0 in
>> read/write mode with no restrictions as long as the tuner is in
>> analog mode. V4L2-core handles conflicting requests between v4l2
>> applications. V4L2-core doesn't have the knowledge that the tuner
>> is in use by a dvb and/or audio is in use. Individual drivers
>> may have this knowledge as, except for one case (bttv driver),
>> they share some data.
>>
>> As soon as a V4L2 application starts, digital stream glitches and
>> audio glitches.
>>
>> DVB case:
>> Multiple dvb applications can open the dvb device in read only mode.
>> As soon an application open the device read/write mode a separate
>> kthread is kicked off to handle the request. Only one application
>> can open the device in read/write mode. There's no issue with ALSA
>> in R/O mode, as the application is not allowed to modify anything
>> with the stream. This is used only to monitor an already opened
>> device in R/W mode.
>>
>> Similar to V4L2-core case, dvb-core doesn't have any knowledge that
>> the tuner is in use by v4l2 and/or audio is in use. As soon as a
>> dvb application starts v4l2 video glitches and audio glitches.
>>
>> Audio case:
>> Same scenario is applicable to audio application. When a v4l2 or dvb
>> application starts, audio application gets impacted.
>>
>> Problems to address:
>>
>> Dvb owns tuner and audio: another dvb, v4l2 application and
>>                           ALSA application should detect
>>                           tuner/audio busy right away and exit.
>>                           Dvb applications don't use audio node,
>>                           however, devices can't use audio hardware
>>                           while in DVB mode.
>>
>> V4l2 owns tuner and audio: dvb should detect tuner/audio busy
>>                            right away and exit.
>>                            The V4L2-core should only hold the token for
>>                            the required time to initialize the device
>>                            and/or load the firmware.
>>                            ALSA applications should wait for v4L2-core
>> 			   to finish programming at audio, and should
>>                            keep working after that.
>>
>> Audio owns audio: dvb applications should detect audio busy and
>> exit. V4L2 applications should work. However, when certain V4L2
>> ioctls are issued, the audio device driver should not send any
>> command to the hardware. After such commands, the audio mixers
>> may change. This is why two tokens are necessary, one for tuner
>> and another for audio.
>>
>> Because of the above mentioned difference in behavior between dvb
>> and v4l applications when audio is busy, two tokens (one for tuner
>> and another for audio) are necessary and audio token lock should not
>> be held at ALSA open/close.
>>
>> Special cases:
>>
>> Dvb applications access tuner in exclusive mode. i.e only one dvb
>> application at a time is allowed to open the device read/write mode.
>> Dvb applications don't use audio node, however, devices can't use
>> audio hardware while in DVB mode. Dvb applications receive data as
>> MPEG-TS, using a separate device node. The same DMA engine that
>> provides video (and, sometimes audio) is used by the DVB device
>> node, making it inaccessible to audio applications while tuner
>> is in DVB mode. Hence, the need to prevent audio applications from
>> accessing audio node when tuner is in DVB mode. As a result, dvb-core
>> will have to hold tuner and audio tokens so v4l2-core and ALSA know
>> that audio is not available. Dvb disables audio hardware so it could
>> be powered-off in some cases.
>>
>> Audio applications access audio in exclusive mode. i.e only one audio
>> application at a time is allowed to open the device in read/write mode.
>> Audio applications create threads and thread closes and re-opens the
>> audio device. Threads can do this and hence something that higher level
>> construct has to allow. Audio application has to hold audio token so
>> dvb and v4l2 know that it is in use.
>>
>> V4l2 applications access tuner and audio in shared v4l2 mode.
>> i.e several v4l2 processes and threads could use tuner and audio
>> at the same time. V4L2 core handles concurrency. There's just
>> one file handler with full control to start/stop stream at V4L2
>> side. The higher level construct should not break the ability of
>> multiple v4l2 applications to access tuner and audio in shared
>> mode, and disallow dvb and audio applications access when they
>> are in use by the V4L2-core.
>>
>> Dvb-core when it gets the tuner, it should also obtain audio right
>> away. v4l2-core when it gets the tuner, it should get the audio at
>> the same time. When dvb-core has the tuner, v4l2 shouldn't get it
>> and vice versa.
>>
>> When dvb-core has the audio locked, audio application should detect
>> condition and stop streaming, as part of the hardware can be powered
>> off. It can only return opening the device after DVB releases audio
>> token.
>>
>> When v4l2-core has audio locked, audio application should detect the
>> condition and stop sending commands to audio hardware. It can only
>> resume audio access after V4L2 releases audio token.
>>
>> Open issues:
>> During testing, snd_pcm_lib_ioctls are coming from dvb application.
>> It is likely that these are related to the audio output and not audio
>> capture or the application in question is an hybrid one. This issue
>> needs further investigation.
>>
>> Alternatives: (proposed by Sakari Ailus)
>> Can Media controller be used to solve the problem?
>>
>> The usage of the media controller for this specific usage is that
>> we should not force userspace applications to be aware of the
>> media controller just because of hardware locking.
>>
>> Currently, media entities may only be entities bound to a given
>> subsystem, but likely need to change media controller for complex
>> embedded DVB device support ...
>>
>> In case of the Media controller, mutual exclusion of different users
>> is currently performed by adding the entities to a pipeline and
>> incrementing the streaming count once streaming is enabled --- on
>> different interfaces streaming may mean a different thing.
>>
>> However, we'll still need to find a way for ALSA to prevent it to use
>> the audio demod and DMA engine that will be powered off when DVB is
>> streaming.
>>
>> The Media controller interface does not handle serializing potential
>> users that may wish to configure the device. Handling serializing is
>> necessary if Media controller is extended instead of pursuing Media
>> Token API to solve the problem.
>>
>> Reconfiguring the DMA engine and some other registers via V4L2 API
>> should be blocked. The same applies to firmware load, if the device
>> is using tuner input for analog TV.
>>
>> If we use the media controller, we'll need to add a state to it,
>> to indicate that a block at the pipeline is being reconfigured.
>>
>> It is dependent on Media Controller adoption on ALSA as well.
> 
> Thank you for the detailed description of the problem domain.
> 
> Using Media controller for this at this point isn't straightforward, and
> especially for existing drivers for which the current APIs serve the
> existing devices well enough, perhaps not the best solution even when the
> missing pieces were implemented.
> 
> More complex devices, though, still need MC in order to control them in a
> meaningful way. If a tuner is connected into one, the media token framework
> wouldn't help there. In other words, we'll need something for such devices
> as well. That'd be proper MC support for DVB and ALSA, but it'll be a
> separate discussion.
> 
> One big upside in this patchset is that it does not change the user space
> interface.

Right that is the goal.

> 
> One concern I have is how generic this framework really is. Do you see
> potential use cases outside the current one?
> 
> I'd move this under drivers/media, and possibly think of the naming of the
> framework a little bit.

Others gave the same feedback on both of your points on generic and
location. I moved it under drivers/media for the patch v3 pre-work
I did before we started the RFC discussion. So we are good there.

> 
> I'll review the rest of the v2.
> 

Great. Please do and give me feedback. I will wait for that before
I get started with patch v3 work.

thanks,
-- Shuah


-- 
Shuah Khan
Sr. Linux Kernel Developer
Samsung Research America (Silicon Valley)
shuahkh@....samsung.com | (970) 217-8978
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Powered by blists - more mailing lists