Date:	Mon, 15 Dec 2014 08:18:44 -0800
From:	Roopa Prabhu <roopa@...ulusnetworks.com>
To:	"Varlese, Marco" <marco.varlese@...el.com>
CC:	Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>,
	John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
	"netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	"stephen@...workplumber.org" <stephen@...workplumber.org>,
	"Fastabend, John R" <john.r.fastabend@...el.com>,
	"sfeldma@...il.com" <sfeldma@...il.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next 1/1] net: Support for switch port configuration

On 12/15/14, 1:39 AM, Varlese, Marco wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Roopa Prabhu [mailto:roopa@...ulusnetworks.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 7:06 AM
>> To: Varlese, Marco
>> Cc: Jiri Pirko; John Fastabend; netdev@...r.kernel.org;
>> stephen@...workplumber.org; Fastabend, John R; sfeldma@...il.com;
>> linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
>> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next 1/1] net: Support for switch port
>> configuration
>>
>> On 12/12/14, 1:19 AM, Varlese, Marco wrote:
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Roopa Prabhu [mailto:roopa@...ulusnetworks.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 5:41 PM
>>>> To: Jiri Pirko
>>>> Cc: Varlese, Marco; John Fastabend; netdev@...r.kernel.org;
>>>> stephen@...workplumber.org; Fastabend, John R; sfeldma@...il.com;
>>>> linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next 1/1] net: Support for switch port
>>>> configuration
>>>>
>>>> On 12/11/14, 8:56 AM, Jiri Pirko wrote:
>>>>> Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 05:37:46PM CET, roopa@...ulusnetworks.com
>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/11/14, 3:01 AM, Jiri Pirko wrote:
>>>>>>> Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 10:59:42AM CET, marco.varlese@...el.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: John Fastabend [mailto:john.fastabend@...il.com]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 5:04 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Jiri Pirko
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Varlese, Marco; netdev@...r.kernel.org;
>>>>>>>>> stephen@...workplumber.org; Fastabend, John R;
>>>>>>>>> roopa@...ulusnetworks.com; sfeldma@...il.com; linux-
>>>>>>>>> kernel@...r.kernel.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next 1/1] net: Support for switch
>>>>>>>>> port configuration
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/10/2014 08:50 AM, Jiri Pirko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 05:23:40PM CET, marco.varlese@...el.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Marco Varlese <marco.varlese@...el.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Switch hardware offers a list of attributes that are
>>>>>>>>>>> configurable on a per port basis.
>>>>>>>>>>> This patch provides a mechanism to configure switch ports by
>>>>>>>>>>> adding an NDO for setting specific values to specific attributes.
>>>>>>>>>>> There will be a separate patch that extends iproute2 to call
>>>>>>>>>>> the new NDO.
>>>>>>>>>> What are these attributes? Can you give some examples. I'm
>>>>>>>>>> asking because there is a plan to pass generic attributes to
>>>>>>>>>> switch ports replacing current specific
>>>>>>>>>> ndo_switch_port_stp_update. In this case, bridge is setting that
>> attribute.
>>>>>>>>>> Is there need to set something directly from userspace or does
>>>>>>>>>> it make rather sense to use involved bridge/ovs/bond ? I think
>>>>>>>>>> that both will be needed.
>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think for many attributes it would be best to have both. The
>>>>>>>>> in kernel callers and netlink userspace can use the same driver
>> ndo_ops.
>>>>>>>>> But then we don't _require_ any specific bridge/ovs/etc module.
>>>>>>>>> And we may have some attributes that are not specific to any
>>>>>>>>> existing software module. I'm guessing Marco has some examples
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>> these.
>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> John Fastabend         Intel Corporation
>>>>>>>> We do have a need to configure the attributes directly from
>>>>>>>> user-space
>>>> and I have identified the tool to do that in iproute2.
>>>>>>>> An example of attributes are:
>>>>>>>> * enabling/disabling of learning of source addresses on a given
>>>>>>>> port (you can imagine the attribute called LEARNING for example);
>>>>>>>> * internal loopback control (i.e. LOOPBACK) which will control
>>>>>>>> how the flow of traffic behaves from the switch fabric towards an
>>>>>>>> egress port;
>>>>>>>> * flooding for broadcast/multicast/unicast type of packets (i.e.
>>>>>>>> BFLOODING, MFLOODING, UFLOODING);
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some attributes would be of the type enabled/disabled while other
>>>>>>>> will
>>>> allow specific values to allow the user to configure different
>>>> behaviours of that feature on that particular port on that platform.
>>>>>>>> One thing to mention - as John stated as well - there might be
>>>>>>>> some
>>>> attributes that are not specific to any software module but rather
>>>> have to do with the actual hardware/platform to configure.
>>>>>>>> I hope this clarifies some points.
>>>>>>> It does. Makes sense. We need to expose this attr set/get for both
>>>>>>> in-kernel and userspace use cases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please adjust you patch for this. Also, as a second patch, it
>>>>>>> would be great if you can convert ndo_switch_port_stp_update to
>>>>>>> this new
>>>> ndo.
>>>>>> Why are we exposing generic switch attribute get/set from userspace
>>>>>> ?. We already have specific attributes for learning/flooding which
>>>>>> can be extended further.
>>>>> Yes, but that is for PF_BRIDGE and bridge specific attributes. There
>>>>> might be another generic attrs, no?
>>>> I cant think of any. And plus, the whole point of switchdev l2
>>>> offloads was to map these to existing bridge attributes. And we
>>>> already have a match for some of the attributes that marco wants.
>>>>
>>>> If there is a need for such attributes, i don't see why it is needed
>>>> for switch devices only.
>>>> It is needed for any hw (nics etc). And, a precedence to this is to
>>>> do it via ethtool.
>>>>
>>>> Having said that, am sure we will find a need for this in the future.
>>>> And having a netlink attribute always helps.
>>>>
>>>> Today, it seems like these can be mapped to existing attributes that
>>>> are settable via ndo_bridge_setlink/getlink.
>>>>
>>>>>> And for in kernel api....i had a sample patch in my RFC series
>>>>>> (Which i was going to resubmit, until it was decided that we will
>>>>>> use existing api around
>>>>>> ndo_bridge_setlink/ndo_bridge_getlink):
>>>>>> http://www.spinics.net/lists/netdev/msg305473.html
>>>>> Yes, this might become handy for other generic non-bridge attrs.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Roopa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> The list I provided is only a subset of the attributes we will need to be
>> exposed. I do have more and I'm sure that more will come in the future. As I
>> mentioned in few posts earlier, some attributes are generic and some are
>> not.
>>> I did not consider ethtool for few reasons but the main one is that I was
>> under the impression that netlink was preferred in many circumstances over
>> the ethotool_ops.
>> That is correct. I don't think anybody hinted that you should extend ethtool.
>>>    Plus, all the cases I have identified so far are going to nicely fit into the
>> setlink set of operations.
>> Would be better if you submitted your iproute2 patch with this patch.
>>
>> I do plan to resubmit my generic ndo patch soon.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roopa
> I honestly do not understand what extra "help" the iproute2 would have brought to this RFC: that patch simply adds a new section for the iproute2 help and a new args parser for the input. From an infrastructure perspective is leveraging what netlink messages are using RTM_SETLINK hence hooking up eventually in the do_setlink(). Sure, obviously contains all the attributes I have in mind but from an infrastructure patch perspective I don't think that you would have gained much in seeing it.
correct. But you mentioned iproute2 changes in your patch comment. And 
since i was not getting a clear understanding of what these attributes 
were...from your current patch..., i thought your iproute2 patch might 
shed some light on how you plan to handle these attributes.

>
> Anyway, good to know you're reworking you generic patch. I'll keep an eye out for your new NDO.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Marco
>

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