linux-kernel - Re: frequent lockups in 3.18rc4

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:	Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:35:01 +0100
From:	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
To:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:	Dave Jones <davej@...hat.com>, Chris Mason <clm@...com>,
	Mike Galbraith <umgwanakikbuti@...il.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Dâniel Fraga <fragabr@...il.com>,
	Sasha Levin <sasha.levin@...cle.com>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Suresh Siddha <sbsiddha@...il.com>,
	Oleg Nesterov <oleg@...hat.com>,
	Peter Anvin <hpa@...ux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: frequent lockups in 3.18rc4

On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 08:48:24PM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Dave Jones <davej@...hat.com> wrote:
> >
> > So the only thing that was on that could cause spinlock overhead
> > was DEBUG_SPINLOCK (and LOCK_STAT, though iirc that's not huge either)
> 
> So DEBUG_SPINLOCK does have one big downside if I recall correctly -
> the debugging spinlocks are very much not fair. So they don't work
> like the real ticket spinlocks. That might have serious effects on the
> contention case, with some thread not making any progress due to just
> the implementation of the debug spinlocks.
> 
> Peter, Ingo, maybe I'm full of crap on the debug spinlock thing., but
> a quick look tells me thay are all built on top of the "trylock"
> primitive that does indeed not queue anything, and is thus not fair.
> 
> I'm not sure why the debug spinlocks couldn't just be ticket locks
> instead. But there you are - once more, the debug infrastructure is
> actually much weaker and inferior to the "real" code.

Yeah, the DEBUG_SPINLOCK stuff is horrible. The trylock loops were
designed to 'detect' actual lockups, but this was all done before
lockdep.

I think one can make an argument to remove the trylock loops and fully
rely on lockdep to detect such issues. Only keeping the integrity
checks; similar to the mutex debugging stuff.

There's a related issue with the trylock loops in that it relies on
delay(1) and DVFS heavy (or virt) platforms often have 'dubious' quality
delay loops.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/