linux-kernel - Re: [Linaro-acpi] [PATCH v5 18/18] Documentation: ACPI for ARM64

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Date:	Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:51:58 -0500
From:	Jon Masters <jcm@...hat.com>
To:	Grant Likely <grant.likely@...aro.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>
CC:	linaro-acpi <linaro-acpi@...ts.linaro.org>,
	Rob Herring <robh@...nel.org>,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>,
	Robert Richter <rric@...nel.org>,
	Jason Cooper <jason@...edaemon.net>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...ysocki.net>,
	Marc Zyngier <Marc.Zyngier@....com>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>,
	Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@...aro.org>,
	Will Deacon <Will.Deacon@....com>,
	Robert Moore <robert.moore@...el.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-acpi@...r.kernel.org" <linux-acpi@...r.kernel.org>,
	Mark Brown <broonie@...nel.org>, Lv Zheng <lv.zheng@...el.com>,
	Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@...gle.com>,
	Liviu Dudau <Liviu.Dudau@....com>,
	"linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org" 
	<linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org>,
	Olof Johansson <olof@...om.net>
Subject: Re: [Linaro-acpi] [PATCH v5 18/18] Documentation: ACPI for ARM64

On 01/15/2015 09:10 AM, Grant Likely wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de> wrote:
>> On Tuesday 06 January 2015 11:20:01 Catalin Marinas wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jan 05, 2015 at 08:16:30PM +0000, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
>>>> On Monday 05 January 2015 13:13:02 Catalin Marinas wrote:
>>>>>> since passing no DT tables to OS but
>>>>>> acpi=force is missing is a corner case, we can do a follow up patch to
>>>>>> fix that, does it make sense?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not entirely. Why would no dtb and no acpi=force be a corner case? I
>>>>> thought this should be the default when only ACPI tables are passed, no
>>>>> need for an additional acpi=force argument.
>>>>
>>>> We don't really support the case of only ACPI tables for now. The expectation
>>>> is that you always have working DT support, at least for the next few years
>>>> as ACPI features are ramping up, and without acpi=force it should not try
>>>> to use ACPI at all.
>>>
>>> So if both DT and ACPI are present, just use DT unless acpi=force is
>>> passed. So far I think we agree but what I want to avoid is always
>>> mandating acpi=force even when the DT tables are missing (in the long
>>> run).
>>>
>>> Now, what's preventing a vendor firmware from providing only ACPI
>>> tables? Do we enforce it in some way (arm-acpi.txt, kernel warning etc.)
>>> that both DT and ACPI are supported, or at least that dts files are
>>> merged in the kernel first?
>>
>> We have no way of enforcing what a board vendor ships, so if they want
>> to have ACPI-only machines for MS Windows, they just won't work by
>> default on Linux. Once ACPI support is mature enough, we can also
>> have a whitelist or a different default for using it automatically
>> when no DT is present.
>>
>> For drivers merged upstream, I would insist that every driver merged
>> for an ARM64 platform has a documented DT binding that is used in the
>> driver.
> 
> That's a dumb rule. It will result in untested DT code paths being
> thrown into drivers just too meet the rules rather than on whether or
> not they will actually be used. It's fine to allow driver authors to
> only implement the ACPI code path if that is what they are working
> with. We can *always* add a DT path to the driver when it is needed.

It gets worse. There *will* be large numbers of ACPI only ARM servers
landing over the coming year. Not only would DT code be untested, but
insisting on keeping e.g. a DSDT and DT in sync is never going to work
anyway. Already we have early stage servers that contain a DT used for
bringup that is subsequently not being updated as often as the ACPI
tables (those systems are now booting exclusively in labs with ACPI).
Eventually, I am going to push for the DT data to be removed from these
systems rather than have out of date unmaintained DT data in firmware.

Jon.

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