Message-ID: <54D31F6F.4030301@gmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 05 Feb 2015 08:44:47 +0100
From:	"Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@...il.com>
To:	Fam Zheng <famz@...hat.com>
CC:	mtk.manpages@...il.com, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>, x86@...nel.org,
	Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>,
	David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@...il.com>,
	Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...mgrid.com>,
	Miklos Szeredi <mszeredi@...e.cz>,
	David Drysdale <drysdale@...gle.com>,
	Oleg Nesterov <oleg@...hat.com>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@...hat.com>,
	Mike Frysinger <vapier@...too.org>,
	Theodore Ts'o <tytso@....edu>,
	Heiko Carstens <heiko.carstens@...ibm.com>,
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	Hugh Dickins <hughd@...gle.com>,
	Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@...icios.com>,
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	linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-api@...r.kernel.org,
	Josh Triplett <josh@...htriplett.org>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@...hat.com>,
	Omar Sandoval <osandov@...ndov.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC v2 0/7] epoll: Introduce new syscalls, epoll_ctl_batch
 and epoll_pwait1

Hello Fam Zheng,

On 02/05/2015 02:52 AM, Fam Zheng wrote:
> On Wed, 02/04 13:44, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
>> Hello Fam Zheng,
>>
>> On 02/04/2015 11:36 AM, Fam Zheng wrote:
>>> Changes from v1 (https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/1/20/189):
>>>
>>>   - As discussed in previous thread [1], split the call to epoll_ctl_batch and
>>>     epoll_pwait. [Michael]
>>>
>>>   - Fix memory leaks. [Omar]
>>>
>>>   - Add a short comment about the ignored copy_to_user failure. [Omar]
>>>
>>>   - Cover letter rewritten.
>>>
>>> This adds two new system calls as described below. I mentioned glibc wrapping
>>> of sigarg in epoll_pwait1 description, so don't read it as end user man page
>>> yet.
>>
>> Fair enough. But I think it would be helpful to say a little more already.
>> See my comment below.
>>
>>> One caveat is the possible failure of the last copy_to_user in epoll_ctl_batch,
>>> which returns per command error code. Ideas to improve that are welcome!
>>>
>>> 1) epoll_ctl_batch
>>> ------------------
>>>
>>> NAME
>>>        epoll_ctl_batch - modify an epoll descriptor in batch
>>>
>>> SYNOPSIS
>>>
>>>        #include <sys/epoll.h>
>>>
>>>        int epoll_ctl_batch(int epfd, int flags,
>>>                            int ncmds, struct epoll_ctl_cmd *cmds);
>>>
>>> DESCRIPTION
>>>
>>>        The system call performs a batch of epoll_ctl operations. It allows
>>>        efficient update of events on this epoll descriptor.
>>>
>>>        Flags is reserved and must be 0.
>>>
>>>        Each operation is specified as an element in the cmds array, defined as:
>>>
>>>            struct epoll_ctl_cmd {
>>>
>>>                   /* Reserved flags for future extension, must be 0. */
>>>                   int flags;
>>>
>>>                   /* The same as epoll_ctl() op parameter. */
>>>                   int op;
>>>
>>>                   /* The same as epoll_ctl() fd parameter. */
>>>                   int fd;
>>>
>>>                   /* The same as the "events" field in struct epoll_event. */
>>>                   uint32_t events;
>>>
>>>                   /* The same as the "data" field in struct epoll_event. */
>>>                   uint64_t data;
>>>
>>>                   /* Output field, will be set to the return code after this
>>>                    * command is executed by kernel */
>>>                   int error_hint;
>>
>> Why 'error_hint', rather than just stay 'status' or 'result'? I mean
>> is it really a "hint"? Also, it can be 0 meaning "success" (no error).
> 
> Because the convention is weak here: the copy_to_user, to assign values to this
> field in user provided array, could (very unlikely) fail, at which point the
> commands are already executed so there is no return. This corner case
> inconsistency makes it hard to be a contract.

I still think it's a poor name. Yes, it could unlikely fail.
Still, 'status' or 'result_status' or something like that is better.

>>>            };
>>>
>>>        Commands are executed in their order in cmds, and if one of them failed,
>>>        the rest after it are not tried.
>>>
>>>        Not that this call isn't atomic in terms of updating the epoll
>>>        descriptor, which means a second epoll_ctl or epoll_ctl_batch call
>>>        during the first epoll_ctl_batch may make the operation sequence
>>>        interleaved. However, each single epoll_ctl_cmd operation has the same
>>>        semantics as a epoll_ctl call.
>>
>> (Good to include that warning!)
>>
>>> RETURN VALUE
>>>
>>>        If one or more of the parameters are incorrect, -1 is returned and errno
>>>        is set appropriately. Otherwise, the number of succeeded commands is
>>>        returned.
>>>
>>>        Each error_hint field may be set to the error code or 0, depending on
>>>        the result of the command. If there is some error in returning the error
>>>        to user, it may also be unchanged, even though the command may actually
>>>        be executed. In this case, it's still ensured that the i-th (i = ret)
>>>        command is the failed command.
>>
>> Sorry -- I'm not clear here. Can you say some more here? What sort
>> of error might there be when "returning the error to the user"?
> 
> As explained above. See also the last comment of Omar:
> 
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/1/21/103

Okay -- but could you please actually explain this in more detail in the 
man page. Then others do not need to ask the same question.

> <...>
> 
>>> DESCRIPTION
>>>
>>>        The epoll_pwait1 system call differs from epoll_pwait only in parameter
>>>        types. The first difference is timeout, a pointer to timespec structure
>>>        which allows nanosecond presicion; the second difference, which should
>>>        probably be wrapper by glibc and only expose a sigset_t pointer as in
>>>        pselect6.
>>
>> Here I think it still helps to explain that 'struct sigags' is a sigset_t* +
>> the size of the pointed-to set.
> 
> Yes, will add.
> 
>>
>>>        If timeout is NULL, it's treated as if 0 is specified in epoll_pwait
>>
>> The convention I would expect here is that NULL means infinite timeout,
>> like select(), and timeout == {0,0} would get the "return immediately"
>> behavior. Why did you choose your convention? And, how does one otherwise 
>> request an infinite timeout?
> 
> I'm wrong. I should follow the conventions of pselect and ppoll. Thanks for
> catching that.

Good.

>>
>>>        (return immediately). Otherwise it's converted to nanosecond scalar,
>>>        again, with the same convention as epoll_pwait's timeout.
>>>
>>> RETURN VALUE
>>>
>>>        The same as said in epoll_pwait(2).
>>>
>>> ERRORS
>>>
>>>        The same as said in man epoll_pwait(2), plus:
>>>
>>>        EINVAL flags is not zero.
>>>
>>>
>>> CONFORMING TO
>>>
>>>        epoll_pwait1() is Linux-specific.
>>>
>>> SEE ALSO
>>>
>>>        epoll_create(2), epoll_ctl(2), epoll_wait(2), epoll_pwait(2), epoll(7)
>>
>> In your earlier patch set, there was the ability to select the clock
>> used for timeouts. Why did this go away? I'm not sure whether we need
>> that functionality or not, but it would be good to know why you
>> dropped it this time.
>>
> 
> No room for another "int clockid". Options:

Ahh yes. I overlooked that. But again, if your commit message or
the man page said something about why you dropped this argument,
then we would not run around in circles having the same 
conversations repeatedly.

I keep loving this recent quote from akpm:
http://lwn.net/Articles/616226/

> 0) Don't have it.
> 
> 1) "Or" into lower bits of flags.
> 
> 2) Encode into flags bits.
> 
> 3) Squash "int clockid" in the last argument (currently "sig" but need to name
> it "spec", again).

Well, it's up to you. In https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/1/20/189
you initially proposed to have the clockid. Do you need it,
or not? I am agnostic about it. If you do decide you want it,
then I think (3) is the best option.

I'm very pleased that you expand this man page as you go.
But, for the next iteration, I think it would be better to make
it even more complete--it really is helpful to have documentation
as a starting point to discuss the API, and the better the doc,
the better the discussion.

Thanks,

Michael


-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/
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